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Subject: So who stands to profit from SOPA? rss

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Rod Peters
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I'm not really sure what SOPA and the like all entail, but I have to wonder, who profits from this?

This was a much longer post but I deleted it as it covered subjects such as untimely demise for politicians based on a lottery and such.

Not really BGG material.
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William Boykin
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Mostly the Hollywood Media Conglomerates, although Sony Corp hasn't come out explicitly in favor of either SOPA or PIPA.

Given that Pres. Obama has announced that he'll veto this bill, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, really.

Darilian
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He'll veto SOPA, but PIPA is still on, I believe, and nearly just as bad.
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William Boykin
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Doesn't have the votes in the Senate. Democratic Senate, remember. After Pres. Obama said he'd veto both, it made both bills DOA. No one is going to get the support for a veto override, especially for a bill that initially was a bi-partisan bill and now is becoming political poison.

As I said, not sure what all the Sturm und Drang is about, really.

Darilian
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Gunther Schmidl
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MPAA, RIAA, and similar mafia-like structures would be able to expand their idiot policies even further.

Note that the MPAA are saying this

Someone who has no concept of irony wrote:
...some technology business interests are resorting to stunts that punish their users or turn them into their corporate pawns, rather than coming to the table to find solutions...


Which is, of course, entirely unlike their draconian anti-piracy measures that only hurt legitimate users, since anyone with half a brain and 30 seconds of Google can get around that stuff easily.

Oh, and Rupert Murdoch is pro-SOPA, so it's a basic human necessity to oppose it.
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William Boykin
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gschmidl wrote:


Oh, and Rupert Murdoch is pro-SOPA, so it's a basic human necessity to oppose it.


You do realize that it is a Tea Party Republican, Darrell Issa, who has been in the forefront of opposition to SOPA?

And that one of SOPA's CO-Sponsors is Democrat Al Franken?

This is a bit more complicated, ideologically, then you might want to make it out to be.

SOPA and PIPA are bi-partisan bills.

Darilian

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Gunther Schmidl
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Darilian wrote:
gschmidl wrote:


Oh, and Rupert Murdoch is pro-SOPA, so it's a basic human necessity to oppose it.


This is a bit more complicated, ideologically, then you might want to make it out to be.


Before this derails: This is purely about my opinion of Murdoch, which is not fit for print, not about Democrats or Republicans.
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Isaac Citrom
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So, I read the bills as far as my understanding of legalese would allow. And, my understanding of the bills jibes with the summaries on Wikipedia.

I'm not really understanding the problem and how this is going to "cripple the Internet". I see how that is being said but I'm not seeing the argumentation for it. If you recall, the Patriot act was going to have our every phonecall recorded, half of us in prison and the end to liberal democracy as we know it. It seems that was dropped as a hot-button topic (boredom?), and wasn't one of Obama's promises to repeal it?

Doesn't BGG already self-police with other aspects of the law. There's no child porn here, for example. Threads are RSPed with amazing speed and users are temporarily banned for contraventions of site policies. In fact, BGG seems to have no trouble whatsoever in controlling its content and with no paid staff.

The moment a copyright holder mentions a problem, its content is removed by BGG pretty easily.

I remember very clearly that in several major cities where smoking in public spaces including bars was banned, including my own Montreal, it would mean the end to night-life wholesale.

Again and again the main argument I keep hearing is that IP ought not be copyrightable at all and that big media companies make too much money, therefore it's OK to copy what you like. That's neither here nor there as SOPA and the myriad of international treaties regarding copyright protection is currently the law of the land of I believe every country on the planet. That's a seperate conversation if one wants to advocate that.

As an aside, pertaining to big media, if someone can put out the same thing as a $150 million dollar budgeted movie off of their laptop (e.g. Lord of the Rings), they ought to do it and give it away. What about the "open" concept? Moreover, in one breath is the continual derision of big Hollywood, on the other is the mad speed and quantity at which their material is copied and consumed.
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Gunther Schmidl
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CNET wrote:

Web sites including Wikimedia (as in, Wikipedia) charged that SOPA is an "Internet blacklist bill" that "would allow corporations, organizations, or the government to order an Internet service provider to block an entire Web site simply due to an allegation that the site posted infringing content."
 
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Eric Johnson
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These sort of laws (Patriot Act and SOPA) are only a problem once you find yourself affected. Until that time, everything seems fine... so why worry?

If the government requests that all parachutes and floating devices be removed from planes, boats and ships, I suppose you could argue that 99.9 percent of all plane flights arrive safely... so no need to worry whatsoever, right? Especially cruise ships... those never sink.
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William Boykin
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gschmidl wrote:
CNET wrote:

Web sites including Wikimedia (as in, Wikipedia) charged that SOPA is an "Internet blacklist bill" that "would allow corporations, organizations, or the government to order an Internet service provider to block an entire Web site simply due to an allegation that the site posted infringing content."


From the same article-

Quote:
"It would cover IP blocking," says Markham Erickson, head of NetCoalition, whose members include Amazon.com, Google, eBay, and Yahoo. "I think it contemplates deep packet inspection" as well, he said.

The exact requirements will depend on what the removal order says. The Recording Industry Association of America says that SOPA could be used to force Internet providers to block by "Internet Protocol address" and deny "access to only the illegal part of the site." It would come as no surprise if copyright holders suggested wording to the Justice Department, which would in turn seek a judge's signature on the removal order.

Deep packet inspection, meaning forcing an Internet provider to intercept and analyze customers' Web traffic, is the only way to block access to specific URLs.

[Lamar] Smith's revised version (PDF) may limit the blocking requirement to DNS blocking. Its "safe harbor" language indicates that not resolving "the domain name of the foreign infringing site" may be sufficient, but some ambiguity remains.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57329001-281/how-sopa-woul...

For the record, I'm not a big fan of SOPA, but I don't think that it is the end of the internet as we know it. I also feel that some type of overhaul of our IP laws is long overdue. Finally, I think this internet furor over SOPA is just silly, given that the bill will not make it to Pres. Obama's desk, and if it did, Pres. Obama will veto it. Moreover, this was known by Monday, given the President's remarks on this issue over the weekend.

These protests are pointless, in that the bill that they are protesting are already DOA. Moreover, the protest page doesn't even MENTION PIPA, the bill that could (hypothetically) move forward, except it won't.

However, this is Aldie's site, so he can do what he wants with it. But I will go on the record and say that I do think that he is overreacting here, and doing so in a way that will disrupt the forums for quite some time. He's done a good job of keeping politics in the RSP ghetto- with his statements on the main page, that Djinni has been uncorked.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
I also feel that some type of overhaul of our IP laws is long overdue.

Of course, things should move to the public domain much earlier, software patents don't make sense, and there's plenty of other restrictions that actually harm progress and only serve the monetary interest of a few already established parties, essentially furthering the destruction of the middle class and harming small business. Current IP laws in general and their enforced segmentation of markets aren't really compatible with the globalization that, today, is a fact, too. There are many things that need changing.

They need some change in a completely different direction than the parties interested in retaining pre-globalization and pre-internet structures for their own monetary benefit and for preserving their last-century business models attempt to push it, though.
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Michael Debije
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gschmidl wrote:
Darilian wrote:
gschmidl wrote:


Oh, and Rupert Murdoch is pro-SOPA, so it's a basic human necessity to oppose it.


This is a bit more complicated, ideologically, then you might want to make it out to be.


Before this derails: This is purely about my opinion of Murdoch, which is not fit for print, not about Democrats or Republicans.


I support your opinion of Murdoch.
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Russell
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Nice piece in the guardiannews.com

The people who want to protect "intellectual property" from all infringement have set up a binary choice. They tell us that if we do not agree to their absolute control, we are endorsing stealing. This is another lie, though it's been an effective one until recently – when people began to realize what was at stake.

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Darilian wrote:


Given that Pres. Obama has announced that he'll veto this bill, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, really.

Darilian



It took a very long time and monstrous pressure for this decision to be made. The fuss - has made a veto probable.

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Charles Phillips
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We have all at some time encountered a badly written set of game rules for what appears to have been a good game idea. This is SOPA. You read and hear comments like, "there is a good game in there somewhere, but too bad they did a poor job with the rules." That is SOPA, that's what the fuss is about.

Everyone is behind the general idea, the opposition is to how it is written. When Congress passes a badly written law, it goes to the courts the first time someone is charged under the law. And then the Courts spend years trying to figure out an equitable and practical interpretation of the law, which wastes the Court's time and tax payer dollars, all because no one thought through the text of the law when it was passed.
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Rod Peters
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I did some research on the subject and I think this link sums it up nicely.

http://theoatmeal.com/sopa

Apologies to those who may have already seen this.
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William Boykin
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The sad part is that The Oatmeal site has been pirated before by FunnyJunk.com.

They host a lot of his stuff, plus advertising, and The Oatmeal gets none of the click through revenue.

Quote:
Here's how FunnyJunk.com's business operates:

Gather funny pictures from around the internet
Host them on FunnyJunk.com
Slather them in advertising
If someone claims copyright infringement, throw your hands up in the air and exclaim "It was our users who uploaded your photos! We had nothing to do with it! We're innocent!"
Cash six figure advertising checks from other artist's stolen material

I first contacted them about a year ago after I found a handful of my comics uploaded on their site with no credit or link back to me. They took down the offending images, but since then they've practically stolen my entire website and mirrored it on FunnyJunk:


http://theoatmeal.com/blog/funnyjunk

SOPA is bad, yes, but that doesn't mean that some type of new regulation to help combat online piracy isn't desperately needed.

Darilian
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J J
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ClineCon wrote:
We have all at some time encountered a badly written set of game rules for what appears to have been a good game idea. This is SOPA. You read and hear comments like, "there is a good game in there somewhere, but too bad they did a poor job with the rules." That is SOPA, that's what the fuss is about.

Everyone is behind the general idea, the opposition is to how it is written. When Congress passes a badly written law, it goes to the courts the first time someone is charged under the law. And then the Courts spend years trying to figure out an equitable and practical interpretation of the law, which wastes the Court's time and tax payer dollars, all because no one thought through the text of the law when it was passed.


Actually, no, NOT everyone is behind the general idea, because the general idea is not what you seem to think it is.

SOPA and PIPA are both hiding behind the mask of IP protection and anti-piracy. What they are both truly about is power and control - the ability to switch off ANY selected part of the net at will. The ability to block communication. And the ability to intimidate and control individuals. Both are excellent tools for bestowing this power.

The internet scares certain people, and this is their response. Expect the next attempt, or the one after that, to be smarter.
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isaacc wrote:
I'm not really understanding the problem and how this is going to "cripple the Internet". I see how that is being said but I'm not seeing the argumentation for it. If you recall, the Patriot act was going to have our every phonecall recorded, half of us in prison and the end to liberal democracy as we know it. It seems that was dropped as a hot-button topic (boredom?), and wasn't one of Obama's promises to repeal it?


Here's how it works. Assume that SOPA is real and active.
Let me find something appropriate...
Justin Beiber wrote:
You know you love me, I know you care
Just shout whenever, and I'll be there
You are my love, you are my heart
And we will never, ever, ever be apart


OK. Now that I've posted that... Universal Music spots the post.
They now go into the address book for the whole internet, and erase all traces of BGG. They then go into Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc, and erase all links to BGG. They can then go to the ISPs, and erect physical roadblocks to anything reaching BGG.

Thus BGG is effectively shut down completely. Erased from the internet.

And all of this can be done DIRECTLY by Universal Music. They don't need a court order, a warrant, any actual evidence, a police report or... this is the best part... any actual reason!

There's zero oversight, zero legal involvement, zero checks and balances.
BoardGameGeek ceases to exist, overnight, because Universal Music doesn't like it.

Oh. And I am charged with a felony, and go to prison for 5 years (longer than if I just randomly stabbed someone on the street) just for posting those 4 lines.

The difference between SOPA and Patriot?
The Patriot Act provisions all go through existing legal entities like the FBI and police.
SOPA gives powers that exceed the reach of the Patriot act to PRIVATE CORPORATIONS.

Remember the bit where I said they don't need an actual reason? You don't think UMG would use takedown powers against anything that wasn't actually violating their copyright...

Except that they already have, BEFORE SOPA even exists.
http://torrentfreak.com/universal-censors-megaupload-song-ge...

New song, does not use any IP belonging to UMG. Still taken down by UMG claiming copyright. Repeatedly.

Under SOPA, you don't even have the ability to protest a takedown. Websites just disappear.
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William Boykin
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JasonJ0 wrote:


The internet scares certain people, and this is their response. Expect the next attempt, or the one after that, to be smarter.


Exactly who are certain people?

From everything that I have been able to ascertain, the key backers of SOPA were the MPAA, the Music, and Television Industries.

As well as GoDaddy.com.

Quote:
The two anti-piracy bills being debated in the US Congress have the backing of some of the largest film, television, music recording and book publishing companies and trade associations in the US.

The companies say their industries are under threat from online piracy, and they have turned to the US Congress for protection.

The bill's backers hope the measures in the legislation will stem the tide of piracy.

"It's a non-market strategy for making money," said Scott Ainsworth, a political scientist at the University of Georgia who has studied lobbying.

"Think about a firm that says we can make better widgets and that will make us money, or we can lobby to protect the widgets that we produce from competition, and that will make us money."

The recording industry is one of the most glaring examples of a business stung by illegal online downloading.

In 2010 - after more than a decade of widespread online piracy - retail music sales declined 11% from the year before.

"Who Backs the Anti-Piracy Laws?" by Daniel Nasaw. BBC.com, 1.17.12
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16603870

Its a bad law because of how it would be implemented, not in terms of what it is trying to accomplish.

Darilian
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isaacc wrote:

So, I read the bills as far as my understanding of legalese would allow. And, my understanding of the bills jibes with the summaries on Wikipedia.

I'm not really understanding the problem and how this is going to "cripple the Internet". I see how that is being said but I'm not seeing the argumentation for it. If you recall, the Patriot act was going to have our every phonecall recorded, half of us in prison and the end to liberal democracy as we know it. It seems that was dropped as a hot-button topic (boredom?), and wasn't one of Obama's promises to repeal it?

Doesn't BGG already self-police with other aspects of the law. There's no child porn here, for example. Threads are RSPed with amazing speed and users are temporarily banned for contraventions of site policies. In fact, BGG seems to have no trouble whatsoever in controlling its content and with no paid staff.

The moment a copyright holder mentions a problem, its content is removed by BGG pretty easily.

I remember very clearly that in several major cities where smoking in public spaces including bars was banned, including my own Montreal, it would mean the end to night-life wholesale.

Again and again the main argument I keep hearing is that IP ought not be copyrightable at all and that big media companies make too much money, therefore it's OK to copy what you like. That's neither here nor there as SOPA and the myriad of international treaties regarding copyright protection is currently the law of the land of I believe every country on the planet. That's a seperate conversation if one wants to advocate that.

As an aside, pertaining to big media, if someone can put out the same thing as a $150 million dollar budgeted movie off of their laptop (e.g. Lord of the Rings), they ought to do it and give it away. What about the "open" concept? Moreover, in one breath is the continual derision of big Hollywood, on the other is the mad speed and quantity at which their material is copied and consumed.
.


Well for a start will Hasbro (Avalon Hill) and Wizards allow us to comment on or have images of their games, IP, on this site? Will those of us offshore be able to view or load images to BGG?
Will all our galleries need to be disabled to prevent any copyright breaches by loading images, or videos to BGG?


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Yeah. Someday, someone will actually read the law, figure out what they 'can' do rather than what they 'should' do (moral law) and this sort of thing WILL happen.
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Charles Phillips
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JasonJ0 wrote:
ClineCon wrote:
We have all at some time encountered a badly written set of game rules for what appears to have been a good game idea. This is SOPA. You read and hear comments like, "there is a good game in there somewhere, but too bad they did a poor job with the rules." That is SOPA, that's what the fuss is about.

Everyone is behind the general idea, the opposition is to how it is written. When Congress passes a badly written law, it goes to the courts the first time someone is charged under the law. And then the Courts spend years trying to figure out an equitable and practical interpretation of the law, which wastes the Court's time and tax payer dollars, all because no one thought through the text of the law when it was passed.


Actually, no, NOT everyone is behind the general idea, because the general idea is not what you seem to think it is.

SOPA and PIPA are both hiding behind the mask of IP protection and anti-piracy. What they are both truly about is power and control - the ability to switch off ANY selected part of the net at will. The ability to block communication. And the ability to intimidate and control individuals. Both are excellent tools for bestowing this power.

The internet scares certain people, and this is their response. Expect the next attempt, or the one after that, to be smarter.


The language of your post is the borderline language of conspiracy theory. I am not saying you are wrong, but when terms like, "certain people" and such are used, it smacks of conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories are fond of words like "them" and "they" - unspecified persons or allegedly monolithic entities - who are engaged in conspiracies, coverups and covert acts for some vaguely unspecified purpose - the usual money or power.

So, if you want to make intelligble arguments, avoid terms like "certain people" and other conspiracy sounding language. Conspiracy theories exist because they never quite provide enough facts to actually pin them down but sound intriguing enough to lurk in the twilight of adult conversation, never quite coming to the light.

Use facts and names and make actual arguments from facts and names.
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Isaac Citrom
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palmerkun wrote:
isaacc wrote:
I'm not really understanding the problem and how this is going to "cripple the Internet". I see how that is being said but I'm not seeing the argumentation for it. If you recall, the Patriot act was going to have our every phonecall recorded, half of us in prison and the end to liberal democracy as we know it. It seems that was dropped as a hot-button topic (boredom?), and wasn't one of Obama's promises to repeal it?


Here's how it works. Assume that SOPA is real and active.
Let me find something appropriate...
Justin Beiber wrote:
You know you love me, I know you care
Just shout whenever, and I'll be there
You are my love, you are my heart
And we will never, ever, ever be apart


OK. Now that I've posted that... Universal Music spots the post.
They now go into the address book for the whole internet, and erase all traces of BGG. They then go into Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc, and erase all links to BGG. They can then go to the ISPs, and erect physical roadblocks to anything reaching BGG.

Thus BGG is effectively shut down completely. Erased from the internet.

And all of this can be done DIRECTLY by Universal Music. They don't need a court order, a warrant, any actual evidence, a police report or... this is the best part... any actual reason!

There's zero oversight, zero legal involvement, zero checks and balances.
BoardGameGeek ceases to exist, overnight, because Universal Music doesn't like it.

Oh. And I am charged with a felony, and go to prison for 5 years (longer than if I just randomly stabbed someone on the street) just for posting those 4 lines.

The difference between SOPA and Patriot?
The Patriot Act provisions all go through existing legal entities like the FBI and police.
SOPA gives powers that exceed the reach of the Patriot act to PRIVATE CORPORATIONS.

Remember the bit where I said they don't need an actual reason? You don't think UMG would use takedown powers against anything that wasn't actually violating their copyright...

Except that they already have, BEFORE SOPA even exists.
http://torrentfreak.com/universal-censors-megaupload-song-ge...

New song, does not use any IP belonging to UMG. Still taken down by UMG claiming copyright. Repeatedly.

Under SOPA, you don't even have the ability to protest a takedown. Websites just disappear.


Then you haven't read the bills, I don't think.

Your post actually helps to convince me that this SOPA business is the usual left-wing doomsday scenario. Really?! BGG will be erased from the Internet directly by Universal because of a quoted stanza of lyrics whose use in that very way are specifically protected by copyright laws?

Actually, if I understand the bills that I read as well as the summary on Wikipedia, just about every paragraph of yours describes the exact opposite of the specific language of the text of the bills.

What is mainly different about SOPA is the attempt is being made to now make hosts responsible for their content. The mechanics you describe is the olar opposite of the bills' provisions.

Par for the course.
.
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