Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
62 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Lies, disspointment and wargames rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Let's start with lies.

For illustrative purposes here we have the stellar example of
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
.

Anyone remember the last time he tried to shunt a bunch of wargame topics off the front page? What were the theoretical reasons.

Goal A) A large # of "this is in the wrong forum" X's
Goal B) Getting non game (war and politics) off the front page


This time his claim is that #1 is the only reason. Let's examine that claim. Which of the above goals is accomplished by this move:

Goal A? Raise your hand if you think that splitting one all inclusive (but not *that* heavily trafficked) forum into three with vague boundaries will work out to be less "wrong forum" Xs. [footnote 1]

Goal B? Mission accomplished.


So seeing as his actions accomplishes one of his goals and not the other, what is the logical conclusion about which goal was being pursued? I see two possibilities:

Possibility #1: He really was pursuing #1, just in a misguided way. (This was my initial assumption. Benefit of the doubt is always important, particularly in online settings.)
Possibility #2: He was (and is) lying about his goal

How does #1 square with saying "people will always complain about changes" and then hiding behind and pretending not to understand the issues? Not terribly well, does it?
How does #2 square with that same dismissive strategy? Dovetails about as well as it possibly could. Thus torpedoing benefit of the doubt.
[Footnote 2]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we'll move on to disappointment:


For this one we, sadly, have our new moderator
"L'état, c'est moi."
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Roger's Reviews: check out my reviews page, right here on BGG!
badge
Caution: May contain wargame like substance
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
.

In an earlier response to me, he seems to feel the need to say that he did not push for the division. I have no doubt about this. None whatsoever. In fact, I thought his actions made it clear that he thought the division was a bad idea. But let's do some digging anyhow shall we. He never actually *says* he thinks its a bad idea. He just says he didn't push for it. I see two versions here then:

Option 1) Despite not pushing for it, he thinks that the division is a good idea
Option 2) He did not push for division because he knows it is a bad idea.

Let's see if we can tease out which of the two is correct by looking at his actions. He has decreed that the very nice book recommendation thread shall remain in general as an exception to the classifications caused by the division. Exceptions are find. Rigid following of the rules is rarely terribly bright. THe interesting part is that good exceptions (of which this is one) exist for a reason. Now we can look at this exception to differentiate between the two options above.

If one thought the divisions were a good idea, then why yank one of the best threads out of the subforum? A thread that might even bring people into said subforum? If, on the other hand, one realizes that the subforums are a bad idea and that threads will likely be going there to suffer a slow death, then rescuing one becomes a good idea. Ergo, option 2 seems to be the correct one. The guy who is supposed to go to bat for the wargames forum and keep this kind of thing from happening (or at least provide a voice against it, it's not like he has the power to actually stop it) just punted. Hmm... batting and punting, sorry for the mixed metaphor. Disappointing to say the least.

But perhaps that's unfair of me. "Why don't I give him the benefit of the doubt as I attempted to give Octavian above?" I hear someone asking. I did. I gave him the opportunity to provide an alternative reason. He instead returned with "see I told you that my decisions would sometimes be unpopular, this is just like I said." Hmmm... pre-emptive dismissal in the very first post to avoid having to actually address concerns. Where have I seen that tactic before? [footnote 2, again] Again, disappointing.

How he thinks I don;'t like this decision (and therefore feels that hiding behind "some decisions will be unpopular" makes any sense) I'm not sure. I applaud this decision. It's the right thing to do. Or at least a small part of the right thing to do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afterword:

I'm fairly positive this will do no good, but Octavian asked (via geekmail) for clarification of several topics. This covers some of them. I'm sick of the games he's playing using that medium, so I'm clarifying here. The remaining topic is the connection between the redesign and the split timing-wise. Others have clarified that to death, so when he claims he doesn't get it, I don't believe him. And as such see no point in responding to that portion of his request.

I'm almost as positive that it won't be around very long.

On the off chance it is still around, does anyone want to put odds on me being able to respond to any replies? Didn't think so


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Footnotes:


[Footnote #1] If your hand is up because you think that killing off enough threads vai relegation will kill off enough discussion to bring the number of "wrong forum" Xs down, please lower your hand. If your hand is still up, I challenge you to support how tripling and vague boundaries = less Xs.

[Footnote #2] See, the padawan has indeed learned well.
9 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It has long been said that wargames are not welcome on BGG. I think this proves that wrong. Wargames are welcome.

Wargamers are not.
15 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dawn_cherri wrote:
The moderators have some interesting tactical decisions they can make in this conflict.

Based on the assumption that they will not revert back (which they can not do unless they want to loss all respect and control)

A) They can engage in endless tete-e-tete with every user that posts an angry thread. Doing so will only prolong the pain IMO.

B) They can ignore the small but vocal screamers. Hoping that eventually the rest of the multitude, wanting a peaceful social forum, will tire of the distractions and demand they cease with the vitriol.

C) They can ban the ringleaders. Bad idea. That only creates martyrs.

Very interesting.

It's like watching a wargame unfold in real time


You forgot

D) Man up and do it right and watch opposition melt away

or the minimum

E) man up and stop lying.

You know, the right thing to do.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
United States
Sellersburg
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
badge
"By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


Seems like you have a personal issue with both Octavian and Roger, wouldnt that be better handled via GM? A thread like this is wildly off topic (oh the irony).
18 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Чебурашка, ты настоящий друг!
United Kingdom
Durham
flag msg tools
Scheiß Inselaffen!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wulf Corbett wrote:
It has long been said that wargames are not welcome on BGG. I think this proves that wrong. Wargames are welcome.

Wargamers are not.


Would that have anything to do with their increasing tendency to behave like prima donnas throwing a hissy fit?
19 
 Thumb up
5.36
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Luftwaffe Flak wrote:


Seems like you have a personal issue with both Octavian and Roger, wouldnt that be better handled via GM? A thread like this is wildly off topic (oh the irony).


Read the post if you actually care. I attempted to discuss this via GM.

Octavian in a long series of geekmails repeatedly requested clarification. Of the same things. It got to the point where his requests for clarification were like talking to ELIZA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA). As mentioned above, this covers two of them.

I know he's not that dumb, so I can only conclude this was another example of him lying.

In response to your erased post:

Because there are users here whom I respect enough to stick around for now despite my utter lack of respect for those in control. Currently, the upside of interacting with them outweighs the downside of dealing with this bullshit. Is that so difficult for you to grasp?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
keethrax wrote:
dawn_cherri wrote:
The moderators have some interesting tactical decisions they can make in this conflict.

Based on the assumption that they will not revert back (which they can not do unless they want to loss all respect and control)

A) They can engage in endless tete-e-tete with every user that posts an angry thread. Doing so will only prolong the pain IMO.

B) They can ignore the small but vocal screamers. Hoping that eventually the rest of the multitude, wanting a peaceful social forum, will tire of the distractions and demand they cease with the vitriol.

C) They can ban the ringleaders. Bad idea. That only creates martyrs.

Very interesting.

It's like watching a wargame unfold in real time :what:


You forgot

D) Man up and do it right and watch opposition melt away

or the minimum

E) man up and stop lying.

You know, the right thing to do.


Honor and authority seldom go together.

Awesome - like a warning, when I posted that,
the Censorship Geek image showed up.

Seriously though - THAT thing shows that the
site doesn't really want to make the place
terribly useful - walk away to get some tea
and a pipe, and you have a damned click-through.

Making me want to support SOPA.
1 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Salo sila wrote:


Would that have anything to do with their increasing tendency to behave like prima donnas throwing a hissy fit?


Yet another responder who can't actually address a single point brought up? Can nobody dispute anything above? And if not, how is saying it wrong?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
'moi' tended on throwing 'hissytorical fitstatures', if anything! and it's: 'Primarily Donned'! whistle
5 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M·ANTONIVS·M·F·M·N
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
15 
 Thumb up
0.03
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Who's the master?
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The decision is unpopular, but let's calm down.

My buddy, Mr. A, vouches for Matthew and knows him well from BGG-con. If he vouches for someone (and he vouches for some of ya'all), that's good enough for me. Matthew's intentions are not evil or deceitful. Keep in agreement that it would be more prudent to seek suggestions (How do we get to X goal?) before implementing changes. It would go over a lot better. (and don't misjudge my intentions, I think the changes suck eggs).

And anybody says a discouraging word about LeRoy will have to deal with the power of Sho Nuff, the Shogun of Harlem ... the baddest, meanest, prettiest mo-fo low down around this town. Cut him a break. Being moderator of a bunch of cranky wargamers would try the patience of anyone.

There are better ways to fight "the man."
25 
 Thumb up
0.51
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
airjudden wrote:
The decision is unpopular, but let's calm down.

My buddy, Mr. A, vouches for Matthew and knows him well from BGG-con. If he vouches for someone (and he vouches for some of ya'all), that's good enough for me. Matthew's intentions are not evil or deceitful. Keep in agreement that it would be more prudent to seek suggestions (How do we get to X goal?) before implementing changes. It would go over a lot better. (and don't misjudge my intentions, I think the changes suck eggs).


Then present a scenario whereby the actions taken support his stated goal as opposed to his old goal. I probably more than anyone else) would love the benefit of the doubt be resurrected. The current actions support one of his old goals and work *against* his currently stated goal. His pretending to not understand why people have said "then wait till after the redesign" is outright lies. There's no way he doesn't understand that request. Can't give him a pass on that lie, it's just too blatant.


Quote:

And anybody says a discouraging word about LeRoy will have to deal with the power of Sho Nuff, the Shogun of Harlem ... the baddest, meanest, prettiest mo-fo low down around this town. Cut him a break. Being moderator of a bunch of cranky wargamers would try the patience of anyone.


I've got little bad to say about him. He knows the changes are bogus. He's stuck in the middle and can't say so but his actions do it for him. That's why I'm disappointed in him, but not angry. If I had negative thoughts towards him disappointed wouldn't be the word being used.

Actually, I'll come clean. That's not 100% true. The dismissing dissent in the very first post and hiding behind that instead of addressing it is something he did (just like Octavian) that angers me to a certain extent. But it's pretty minor. Call it 95% disappointed 5% angry.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gone C. Profile
msg tools
Avatar
keethrax wrote:
But let's do some digging anyhow shall we. He never actually *says* he thinks its a bad idea. He just says he didn't push for it. I see two versions here then:

Option 1) Despite not pushing for it, he thinks that the division is a good idea
Option 2) He did not push for division because he knows it is a bad idea.

It seems to me you're leaving out "he didn't push for it because he doesn't feel strongly one way or another, and just wants to do what will best serve BGG and/or the wargaming community," and possibly other options as well, which makes the rest of your speculation about his thoughts questionable.

keethrax wrote:
How he thinks I don;'t like this decision (and therefore feels that hiding behind "some decisions will be unpopular" makes any sense) I'm not sure. I applaud this decision. It's the right thing to do. Or at least a small part of the right thing to do.

OK, you've got a dozen paragraphs calling these guys liars and losers, and then you say you like the decision you're complaining about? I don't understand what you're saying, and I can't be the only one. And when you attack these two guys personally, I have trouble accepting anything else you say.
33 
 Thumb up
5.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
People seem to misundertand this post. Mostly my fault I'm sure.

It's not an attack on Octavian, it's a clarification as requested *by* Octavian himself on several of the points he requested clarification on.

It's not a "this is why he's a bad guy" (which is how it is being read). It is laying out by request "here's how I came to the conclusion that he was being less than honest."

Roger is a bit different, as I said. I'm (mostly) not angry with him. But I am disappointed, and would love to see a reason not to be in his case too. More so than Octavian in fact as Rogers is "one of our own."

They probably should have been in multiple posts to keep the tone from the first section form bleeding into the second. Both when being written, and even in places where it isn't there just by proximity while being read.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kuhrusty wrote:
/

keethrax wrote:
How he thinks I don;'t like this decision (and therefore feels that hiding behind "some decisions will be unpopular" makes any sense) I'm not sure. I applaud this decision. It's the right thing to do. Or at least a small part of the right thing to do.

OK, you've got a dozen paragraphs calling these guys liars and losers, and then you say you like the decision you're complaining about? I don't understand what you're saying, and I can't be the only one. And when you attack these two guys personally, I have trouble accepting anything else you say.


Sorry, I should have quoted some context for that.

I like the decision not to relegate the suggestion thread. It's a good thread that should be kept alive. If you interpreted that as I like the overall decision, then I apologize.

I don't care if you accept what I say. I'd rather you didn't in fact. Show me where it's wrong and I'll probably be happier than you.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
I happen to agree on their decision with providing additional outlets for us here now. It had been long awaited by those of US here, that had been greatly 'disaffected' due to the misunderstanding or miss-communication that led to its 'creation' as a result. The majority of YOU that weren't even around from whence 'moi' began here within BGG, certainly don't fully comprehend nor understand how much outright oppression, or suppression this involved against myself alone, and our 'niche', for that matter. We are given quite the leeway NOW, in presenting any material(s) related to our own vested interests. I shall continue to "work with", rather than 'against', our mutual concerns, whether it is conducted "out in public" or not. YOU don't have to agree on this aspect, while that is your choice in the matter, and I've made MINE quite clear now then as well.
cool
6 
 Thumb up
0.26
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GROGnads wrote:
I happen to agree on their decision with providing additional outlets for us here now.


I do too. And I've repeatedly said as much. I do not agree with being relegated off the front page if not necessary. As a corollary, if necessary it would be nice to know why it had to be done now instead of when the structure was in place to prevent it. Further, I do not, agree with being lied to. I believe we were, and have outlined why above. Further I know I was, but as it was via geekmail, that's neither here nor there.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Meinster
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
BGG Wargamers: Bringing light to opression and major difficulties facing all the world.

Thanks to a few gamers tireless efforts, they have raised awareness to BGG Wargame Subdomain Syndrome, which now ranks #459 on the list of important shit the world needs to care about.

Watch out, #458 (Ass-cancer), because of the tireless whinings of some brave women and men, the plight of the BGGer - slighted wargamer branch - is now known to the world.

And in response, the world sighs... "Oh, another "Western" problem.

3 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MeinsterMeester wrote:


Thanks to a few gamers tireless efforts, they have raised awareness to BGG Wargame Subdomain Syndrome, which now ranks #459 o


That makes i higher on your list than mine. But the wargames forum on BGG the appropriate place to discuss most of the other ~500?

I see, you're just one of those guys who cares so little they need to chime in just to tell us how much they don't care. How quaint.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Perrella
United States
Anoka
Minnesota
flag msg tools
with a purposeful grimace
badge
and a terrible sound
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As I said in another thread, I'm just not understanding how we got to this level of outrage. I'm NOT saying the OP is wrong on ANY of his points, I just don't see how any of this is that big a deal. I will say this again to be clear- I'm NOT arguing against the OP or against anyone who is upset by this change, you may or may not be 100% correct in any of your assumptions and I'm not debating that.

I can still access everything I want to access and it looks like the upcoming UI will make it even better. Anyone else is welcome, but if they can't even figure out how to find us, I doubt they'll have anything useful to add. What's the big deal?

I would point out that being a mod or admin of a popular forum is a brutal and thankless job. Honestly, I'm amazed that anyone would do it. A good friend of mine was a mod for an extremely popular tv fandom site and it damn near drove her to a nervous breakdown. I think a false assumption being made here is that the mods or admins are following every thread and argument as close as you are, and I can almost guarantee that they are being bombarded with endless requests/questions/complaints that none of us will ever see. There is TONS of "behind the scenes" work being done all the time.

Communicating directly with the mods (as you did, I did read it fully) is the best way to deal with this. Fanning the flames in the subforums probably isn't. I also agree with a previous poster that Octavian is a pretty nice guy in person (as are all the admins and mods I met at bgg.con), I seriously doubt he's doing this as a personal affront to anyone. I give him the benefit of the doubt in that I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is best for the site. I do agree that it could have been announced better, but I can't imagine he thought this would have caused such a firestorm. Honestly, put yourself in his shoes and think about all this for a minute. Do you even know what he does most of the day? I don't, but I can't imagine he's sitting there all day trying to find ways to piss off all the vocal wargamers.

Yes, we should (politely!) let TPTB know what we think, but this is getting out of hand. Let's just all relax, have an "adult beverage," and get a game on the table. My plan is a solo play of Band of Heroes after work tonight, though I am tempted by the new 1:48 scale Tamiya Tiger I model kit that I recently got
5 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Powers
United States
Marble
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kuhrusty wrote:
keethrax wrote:
But let's do some digging anyhow shall we. He never actually *says* he thinks its a bad idea. He just says he didn't push for it. I see two versions here then:

Option 1) Despite not pushing for it, he thinks that the division is a good idea
Option 2) He did not push for division because he knows it is a bad idea.

It seems to me you're leaving out "he didn't push for it because he doesn't feel strongly one way or another, and just wants to do what will best serve BGG and/or the wargaming community," and possibly other options as well, which makes the rest of your speculation about his thoughts questionable.


Fair enough. But I don't think that holds up. If he didn't care enough, then why rescue the one thread? To me that says "I care, but am unwilling to do much about it" It's pretty much what I was getting at with option 2.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Perrella
United States
Anoka
Minnesota
flag msg tools
with a purposeful grimace
badge
and a terrible sound
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
keethrax wrote:
People seem to misundertand this post. Mostly my fault I'm sure.

It's not an attack on Octavian, it's a clarification as requested *by* Octavian himself on several of the points he requested clarification on.

It's not a "this is why he's a bad guy" (which is how it is being read). It is laying out by request "here's how I came to the conclusion that he was being less than honest."

Roger is a bit different, as I said. I'm (mostly) not angry with him. But I am disappointed, and would love to see a reason not to be in his case too. More so than Octavian in fact as Rogers is "one of our own."

They probably should have been in multiple posts to keep the tone from the first section form bleeding into the second. Both when being written, and even in places where it isn't there just by proximity while being read.


Well said, sir. This was posted as I made my post, so some of what I said above is probably less relevant now. As you didn't mean to attack Octavian, I hope it's clear I wasn't attacking you or directly defending Octavian's action. Just trying to provide some perspective

Off topic- I'm originally from Hibbing and my Mom's family is from Keewatin, so we probably chewed some of the same ground at one time.
 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Meinster
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I truly and deeply care about all the wronged, oppressed, and diseased that live on this big blue marble called earth. Your and a handful of other BGGers complaints have raised awareness because of the sheer quantity of time and energy you have devoted to bringing light such an injustice thrust upon you by the evil overlords that want to bring misery and pain to your quaint wargaming tribe.

The trials and tribulations that this change must bring upon you and your bretheren must be very, very, very, very hard for you. Its almost as if you were dying, as evidenced by the last-throes-of-life reaction that you and others have had to this great wrong.

We here at Meaningful Life-issues Group want to let you know that in addition to the constant care we supply to other truly deserving causes like your own, such as mortal diseases, abuse, poverty, and wrongful convictions, we will work tirelessly to make sure that the grave damages that you suffer will be tended to in a loving and caring manner.
2 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
I can ONLY speak for myself in these 'regards', yet, I HAVE promulgated upon "Societal Issues" and even as recently as TODAY, if you even bothered to check into such, of which you obviously didn't, eh?
shake
1 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
MeinsterMeester wrote:
I truly and deeply care about all the wronged, oppressed, and diseased that live on this big blue marble called earth.


I don't.

Quote:
Your and a handful of other BGGers complaints have raised awareness because of the sheer quantity of time and energy you have devoted to bringing light such an injustice thrust upon you by the evil overlords that want to bring misery and pain to your quaint wargaming tribe.


I see it more as trying to defend something that I value.
If I can't - if it becomes less valuable - well, such is.
But better this than throw money at the site, and still have
it turn to crap.

Quote:
The trials and tribulations that this change must bring upon you and your bretheren must be very, very, very, very hard for you. Its almost as if you were dying, as evidenced by the last-throes-of-life reaction that you and others have had to this great wrong.


It may be that a community is dying. Seen it happen before
over less than this. That would suck.

Quote:
We here at Meaningful Life-issues Group want to let you know that in addition to the constant care we supply to other truly deserving causes like your own, such as mortal diseases, abuse, poverty, and wrongful convictions, we will work tirelessly to make sure that the grave damages that you suffer will be tended to in a loving and caring manner.


Great. So what are you doing about it?
2 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.