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Federation & Empire» Forums » General

Subject: Compatibility of counters across editions rss

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Andrew C
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I have the first edition of F&E and am strongly considering getting the latest edition, for the newer rules, and the broken out carrier groups. Should I sell off my first edition, or keep it for the extra ship counters. Are they essentially the same (color, factors, ship silhouettes) as the new counters for "normal" ships like cruisers, frigates etc?

Thanks!

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James Lowry
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80%+ are the same; I'd keep them. (Done it twice with different '86 copies now.) You can never have too many counters!

The art has changed a little. The style of the backs have changed a little (still has the stripe and all). Some of the colors have changed a bit on the most recent printing, but I don't think it was intentional, and I wouldn't be surprised to the Federation counters shift back towards bright blue from the much darker blue seen in 2010.

Some factors have changed. All the 11-point Fed DNs of the original set are now DN+ (Deluxe introduced 10-point DNs and 12-point DNGs for the Feds). Easy enough to modify with a good black pen.

The Gorn DD went from 4-points in '86 to 5 in Deluxe. You'll probably want to toss the old ones.

The factors involved in the carrier groups saw a lot of changes in Deluxe; you'll probably want to just toss the existing ones for the new carrier & escort counters.

I *think* that's everything that changed in DF&E.

A number of ships got some tweaking in 2010, with the use of 'triangle factors' (half of a fighter factor). Notably, the Kzinti CVL got one, and several Hydran hybrid carriers got them. (You won't have any CVL counters, but if you get Fighter Operations, the old ones will be there.) Also, a number of carriers gained triangles on their crippled side. As far as I know, most vets are just mixing the new and old counters together and not worrying about it much.
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James Lowry
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Another note that just occurred to me:

The '86 version features a pair of unique counters that were dropped with Deluxe because it moved to multiples of a set of sheets, which allowed more sheets to be included. So treasure the Hydran LC (also included in Advanced Operations), and Romulan KC9 (included in modern F&E as a pair of single-sided counters) from your '86 set.
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Michael Tisdel
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There was a change made to the original carrier group counters with the release of Deluxe F&E. Deluxe F&E included a counter conversion chart. With the new release of F&E, this is mostly useless as carrier group counters are no longer used.

That said, if you have the old group counters and want/need to use them, this chart can help in a pinch.
 
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Keith Plymale
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I've been into this game since 1986 too so I was one of those who had waited for ISC war for 25 years. Since the CV groups are gone I'm gonna pull those counters and just use the singles. The newer counter sheets are available from ADB and 7 USD for color double sided is very reasonable IMHO but I realise YMMV.
 
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