Joshua Speelman
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I'm wondering if the game is easier for Tokugawa since he has two instant victory conditions whereas Ishida only has the one. Is there some kind of balance for that?

Also what is the purpose of the other disk? It can't fight or move but can be lost to combat. Is it just a "bonus" piece to lose if there's a seige in that castle?
 
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R Larsen
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Hi Joshua,

You can look forward to an entertaining experience.

To me and to most, it would seem that Tokugawa is easier. However, it depends a lot on how you play, and some on the cards you draw.
Tokugawa can be more aggressive from the start, but I think with some careful management on the Ishida (?) side, Tokugawa can easily be in big trouble.

Concerning the disks, I think that they are exactly what you say - intrinsic strength of the castle, that makes it more difficult or take longer, to conquer a castle by siege. Remember that you can only keep two blocks inside a castle during a siege, so those two locations are somewhat stronger than any other castle. It will take 7 more strength to take those castles.

Enjoy!
Ras
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Brian Lenz
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Either side will be fine. RLarsen makes a good point in the fact that it is all on you and how you play. The Ishida side is more defensive and and the Tokugawa side starts out being more offensive. You will find your balance after playing a few times.

As for the discs it fortifies the siege of a castle in those locations. Normally you can only have two blocks in a castle for a siege but at the disc locations it can be two blocks plus the disc. Although the disc is the first piece to be vanquished it does make the opponent dig deeper into their deck when battling a siege.
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LaffyTaffy wrote:
Either side will be fine. RLarsen makes a good point in the fact that it is all on you and how you play. The Ishida side is more defensive and and the Tokugawa side starts out being more offensive. You will find your balance after playing a few times.

As for the discs it fortifies the siege of a castle in those locations. Normally you can only have two blocks in a castle for a siege but at the disc locations it can be two blocks plus the disc. Although the disc is the first piece to be vanquished it does make the opponent dig deeper into their deck when battling a siege.


That's not quite right, is it? The disc in the northeast castle serves as an extra unit to be destroyed, making the siege harder. But I don't see where the disc mus be stroyed first.

As for the disc in the capital, that's the Ishida heir and Ishida loses if that piece is destroyed. So you wouldn't choose to lose it first! (But you are probably in trouble if that castle is under seige).

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Malacandra wrote:

That's not quite right, is it? The disc in the northeast castle serves as an extra unit to be destroyed, making the siege harder. But I don't see where the disc mus be stroyed first.


Correct. The disk need not be the first piece lost for siege casualties. If you had two blocks plus Sanada at Ueda and had to choose two losses, you're free to choose any 2 of the three, including leaving only Sanada behind.

Malacandra wrote:


As for the disc in the capital, that's the Ishida heir and Ishida loses if that piece is destroyed. So you wouldn't choose to lose it first! (But you are probably in trouble if that castle is under seige).



The Ishida Capital is Kyoto. Toyotomi (the boy heir disc) is in Osaka. In a siege of Osaka, yes you will obviously save Toyotomi until the bitter end. As you suggest, if you're already under siege in Osaka, then the end may well be nigh unless it's the final week and you can survive.
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Greg M
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Regarding instant victory conditions, and an imbalance in difficulty because of them: Osaka is an incredibly tough nut to crack, and because there is very little for the Ishida block to contribute to combat I see him deploying less as plays accumulate. The Tokugawa block, however, is very useful in combat and sees a great deal of action. I'd say the two sides are well balanced.
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Okay another question. I'm setting up for the first game tomorrow (1-20-12) and I noticed there are Mori blocks without the triangle and I have more than the five specified in the rulebook. Probably an assumption on my part but I thought the only Mori blocks were the ones in the Mori box. Is it correct for me to have more than the five Mori blocks?
 
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Joshua the Gamer wrote:
Okay another question. I'm setting up for the first game tomorrow (1-20-12) and I noticed there are Mori blocks without the triangle and I have more than the five specified in the rulebook. Probably an assumption on my part but I thought the only Mori blocks were the ones in the Mori box. Is it correct for me to have more than the five Mori blocks?


The five marked Mori blocks are the ones set aside in the Mori box to be deployed into Osaka. The rest of the Mori blocks are the standard ones and they are indeed meant to be mixed into the bag with the other ishida blocks as part of the initial random draws to buff up the stacks and then for the rest of the game.

Also, because it will probably be your next question, don't worry about the exact block placements shown in the setup diagram. Use the gameboard and the block symbols to set it up. Match up all the block symbols to the starting spaces on the board and then place random blocks as per the symbols on the board. Apparently the rule book image does not directly match the correct setup and is for demonstration only.
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Okay so my friend and I played our first game and had a blast. My friend played Tokugawa and I played Ishida. I lost on the endgame scoring. I do have a question though: If I'm reading it right castles that have no blocks in them belong to the side that the castle's color is? Doesn't matter if it's last occupant was of the opposite side? Is that correct?
 
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Joshua the Gamer wrote:
Okay so my friend and I played our first game and had a blast. My friend played Tokugawa and I played Ishida. I lost on the endgame scoring. I do have a question though: If I'm reading it right castles that have no blocks in them belong to the side that the castle's color is? Doesn't matter if it's last occupant was of the opposite side? Is that correct?


That's correct, and the reason why the game ships cubes for resources but not for castles. In practice, however, it can be difficult to clearly spot all the castles until players know the map very well and so markers to remember castle ownership would help.
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Thomas Chipman
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Joshua the Gamer wrote:
Okay so my friend and I played our first game and had a blast. My friend played Tokugawa and I played Ishida. I lost on the endgame scoring. I do have a question though: If I'm reading it right castles that have no blocks in them belong to the side that the castle's color is? Doesn't matter if it's last occupant was of the opposite side? Is that correct?


correct. as per section 4.3 of the rules"

4.3 wrote:
Castles are controlled by a player if he has blocks at that location and his opponent doesn't. If neither player has blocks present, the castle reverts to its natural alignment.
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jrebelo wrote:
Joshua the Gamer wrote:
Okay so my friend and I played our first game and had a blast. My friend played Tokugawa and I played Ishida. I lost on the endgame scoring. I do have a question though: If I'm reading it right castles that have no blocks in them belong to the side that the castle's color is? Doesn't matter if it's last occupant was of the opposite side? Is that correct?


That's correct, and the reason why the game ships cubes for resources but not for castles. In practice, however, it can be difficult to clearly spot all the castles until players know the map very well and so markers to remember castle ownership would help.


I like the idea of marking castles. I may do something in future games to mark them just to make them easier to find.
 
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1rr1tated wrote:
Regarding instant victory conditions, and an imbalance in difficulty because of them: Osaka is an incredibly tough nut to crack, and because there is very little for the Ishida block to contribute to combat I see him deploying less as plays accumulate. The Tokugawa block, however, is very useful in combat and sees a great deal of action. I'd say the two sides are well balanced.


How is the Tokugawa block more useful than the Ishida one? Because it can contribute to the "same clan deployment" bonus?
 
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Joshua the Gamer wrote:
1rr1tated wrote:
Regarding instant victory conditions, and an imbalance in difficulty because of them: Osaka is an incredibly tough nut to crack, and because there is very little for the Ishida block to contribute to combat I see him deploying less as plays accumulate. The Tokugawa block, however, is very useful in combat and sees a great deal of action. I'd say the two sides are well balanced.


How is the Tokugawa block more useful than the Ishida one? Because it can contribute to the "same clan deployment" bonus?


Correct. On the other hand, Ishida deploys with any suit of card, but since he contributes only 1 impact to battles no matter what, I tend to never bring him into a fight at all. I try to sneak him off well behind safe lines where he can't come under threat.
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jrebelo wrote:
Joshua the Gamer wrote:
1rr1tated wrote:
Regarding instant victory conditions, and an imbalance in difficulty because of them: Osaka is an incredibly tough nut to crack, and because there is very little for the Ishida block to contribute to combat I see him deploying less as plays accumulate. The Tokugawa block, however, is very useful in combat and sees a great deal of action. I'd say the two sides are well balanced.


How is the Tokugawa block more useful than the Ishida one? Because it can contribute to the "same clan deployment" bonus?


Correct. On the other hand, Ishida deploys with any suit of card, but since he contributes only 1 impact to battles no matter what, I tend to never bring him into a fight at all. I try to sneak him off well behind safe lines where he can't come under threat.


So does Ishida not play like a regular leader? Can he not just be the first deployment without a card at all?
 
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Joshua the Gamer wrote:
jrebelo wrote:
Joshua the Gamer wrote:
1rr1tated wrote:
Regarding instant victory conditions, and an imbalance in difficulty because of them: Osaka is an incredibly tough nut to crack, and because there is very little for the Ishida block to contribute to combat I see him deploying less as plays accumulate. The Tokugawa block, however, is very useful in combat and sees a great deal of action. I'd say the two sides are well balanced.


How is the Tokugawa block more useful than the Ishida one? Because it can contribute to the "same clan deployment" bonus?


Correct. On the other hand, Ishida deploys with any suit of card, but since he contributes only 1 impact to battles no matter what, I tend to never bring him into a fight at all. I try to sneak him off well behind safe lines where he can't come under threat.


So does Ishida not play like a regular leader? Can he not just be the first deployment without a card at all?


He does deploy like a leader (for free before any card deployments), yes, but that trait is mutual to all leaders.
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Thanks for all the help guys. Already have a date for the next play of this game. We actually did everything right from your answers to my questions (which is awesome because I usually screw something up on the first play of a game).
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