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Subject: Summary of Simple Tweaks rss

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Carter
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I thought it might be useful to comb through the many pages of suggested variants to cull out some of the simpler ideas that don't require any significant modification:

- Encourage Exploration Discard - get 1 resource if you discard a hex (though this benefits Planta)

- Increase Tech Diversity - Discard and draw new tech tile if that tech can no longer be researched (due to there being sufficient tiles of that tech already in play for each player).

- More Competition (for 2-3 player games) - Homeworlds start next to GCDS, and II tiles are not used. 8 or 18 sector III tiles are used for 2 or 3 players, respectively.

- Buff Shields and Nerf Computers (and thus also PMs) - Use D10s with 8 to-hit (1s/10s always miss/hit)

- Dissuade Turtling - (i) Ancients do not give battle VP; (ii) VP for battle participation only given to attacker

- Increase Strategic Pass - (i) Turn order according to pass order; (ii) second passing player decides direction of turn order.

- Nerf Plamsa Missiles - (i) equate drive value with shields against missiles; (ii) remove missiles from the bag; (iii) one missile part max per ship; (iv) missiles do no reload during combat phase (between battles); (v) remove missile part from ship after combat phase

- Drive Buff - Retreat only possible if opponent lacks higher drive value

- Better Tech Planning - Preview tech tiles for next turn

- Mitigate 'Lucky Start' - For first exploration action of the game, draw tiles equal to number on back and select 1

- Scuttle Ship - During influence action you may scuttle a ship in lieu of moving a disc

- Reduce Battle VP Randomness - Once per battle, discard a battle VP to reroll 2 dice

- More Strategic Choice with Discovery VPs - Decision to take VP or flip-side not taken immediately, but discretionary once per turn

- Diplomatic Military Support - you may move through allied hexes without losing the alliance (and becoming traitor) provided that you do not remain in them (thus inciting a battle)

- Race Specific Buff - Draco gets 2 VP per ancient;

---

EDITs from comments below incorporated.

Generally, I tried to avoid overly complex suggestions, or anything that would require modification of cardboard. I don't like variants much, but think some of the above would be worth testing, or to give the designers some concise ideas for changes / expansions.

I also think there are some simple and very interesting ideas for the blank chits, and it may be useful to have a summary of those.
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J Bernardo
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Descendants of Draco Buff: Ancients Ships give 2 VP not 1VP

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Lacombe
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Military Support - You may enter hexes of cultures with which you have made diplomatic relations without immediately becoming a traitor [i.e. to assist them in fending off a third-party attacker, or to move through their hex to a third-party location]. You only become a traitor if you attack them or remain in the hex at the end of the combat phase [i.e. do not retreat immediately after combating any third-party].

About the only one I've seen that I'd consider using yet.
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Michael Evans
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Buff to the non-VP side of discovery tiles: You don't have to choose to take the benefit or keep the VP's immediately. Instead, once per turn you can discard one of your VP tiles to take the benefit on the back.

There wasn't a lot of discussion about this variant, but nobody flamed it either. So there is that.
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Turn Order variant - The only variant so far that makes perfect sense to our group.

Ah crud its already there just worded differently .... maybe add links to the threads where they are discussed?
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
How to reduce randomness:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/683662/my-first-eclipse-hous...

How to improve turn order, KISS principle:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/8183658#8183658
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Tery McAlister

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Re: Summary of Tweaks
pzkrakz wrote:
- Drive Buff - Retreat only possible if opponent lacks higher drive value


AFAIK this was added as a conceptual/logical addition rather than actually dealing with game balance.

Personally I don't think it even works from a concept/logical thought. Sure with Star Trek/Warp Drive it makes sense; but not with wormholes/jump drives. Once you get to a wormhole or activate a jump it doesn't matter how fast/slow your opponent is; you're gone.

The 'speed' of a jump drive isn't how fast it goes - but how many jumps it can make.
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J Bernardo
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Umpapa wrote:


Last night we tried a variant of your variant. We didn't like the reroll idea too much, but we did like the "military experience" idea. We created an unusable resource called "military experience." We each placed a black cube (we had extras) on the storage track. Each battle we entered we gained a point on the board. Each battle you participate it is worth 1VP. This crippled turtling and still gave incentive for late game and early game battling. By end game a battle may only help you increase 1 or 2VP; however, with an ever increasing resource it made the game more interactive.
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Carter
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Maeltne wrote:
pzkrakz wrote:
- Drive Buff - Retreat only possible if opponent lacks higher drive value


AFAIK this was added as a conceptual/logical addition rather than actually dealing with game balance.

Personally I don't think it even works from a concept/logical thought. Sure with Star Trek/Warp Drive it makes sense; but not with wormholes/jump drives. Once you get to a wormhole or activate a jump it doesn't matter how fast/slow your opponent is; you're gone.

The 'speed' of a jump drive isn't how fast it goes - but how many jumps it can make.


Actually, I added this concept as one way to put drive tech at parity with computers, by giving drive an additional tactical advantage in combat. Then I tried to rationalize this thematically. I see your point re theme, however one could simply rationalize that, once in the sector (i.e. out of the wormhole), ships with slow drives cannot escape the combat field when the opponent's ships are faster.
 
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Carter
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Mike_Evans wrote:
Buff to the non-VP side of discovery tiles: You don't have to choose to take the benefit or keep the VP's immediately. Instead, once per turn you can discard one of your VP tiles to take the benefit on the back.

There wasn't a lot of discussion about this variant, but nobody flamed it either. So there is that.


Added. Perhaps this would work better if you leave the VP tile in the hex, and if you lose control of the hex then you no longer have access to it? Then it would be a more strategic decision regarding when you exploit or partner with the endogenous civ, and I think makes more thematic sense.
 
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Carter
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
evilpanda wrote:
Descendants of Draco Buff: Ancients Ships give 2 VP not 1VP



In our games with Draco, we found them to be sufficiently powerful without any buffs. Specifically, they can move with ease through the central tiles. Also, doubling the VP value also inflates the randomness of the Draco endgame VP advantage. Seems to me that the best way to rebalance any races (if you feel it is necessary) would be to adjust the starting resources (however this goes against the constraint of this thread).
 
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Tery McAlister

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Re: Summary of Tweaks
pzkrakz wrote:
Actually, I added this concept as one way to put drive tech at parity with computers, by giving drive an additional tactical advantage in combat. Then I tried to rationalize this thematically. I see your point re theme, however one could simply rationalize that, once in the sector (i.e. out of the wormhole), ships with slow drives cannot escape the combat field when the opponent's ships are faster.


Probably not the place to debate this, but computers give an advantage in combat, drive gives an advantage in actions & tactics. To also give drives an advantage in combat seems unbalanced.

Also thematically the number of jumps a drive can make has absolutely nothing to do with the speed of the ship whether it is jumping or not.
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
Maeltne wrote:
Probably not the place to debate this, but computers give an advantage in combat, drive gives an advantage in actions & tactics. To also give drives an advantage in combat seems unbalanced.


Don't many drives also give initiative already? Having higher initiative already gives you more shots before an opponent can retreat.
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Will Sanchez
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
pzkrakz wrote:

- Nerf Plamsa Missiles - (i) equate drive value with shields against missiles; (ii) remove missiles from the bag; (iii) one missile part max per ship; (iv) missiles do no reload during combat phase (between battles); (v) remove missile part from ship after combat phase


these all seem rather complicated in adding rules for. I always thought the most obvious "fix" was to simply make them cost energy like all the other weapons. No new rules explanations/reminders necessary.
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Petri Savola
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Re: Summary of Tweaks
delta_angelfire wrote:
pzkrakz wrote:

- Nerf Plamsa Missiles - (i) equate drive value with shields against missiles; (ii) remove missiles from the bag; (iii) one missile part max per ship; (iv) missiles do no reload during combat phase (between battles); (v) remove missile part from ship after combat phase


these all seem rather complicated in adding rules for. I always thought the most obvious "fix" was to simply make them cost energy like all the other weapons. No new rules explanations/reminders necessary.

We played two games today with a house rule where during each combat round, one missile component can be used per ship.

This effectively reduces the power of missile only designs and also reduces the effectiveness of missile starbases, dreadnoughts and cruisers (or any designs with more than 1 missile component in it), which I consider a good thing.

Example: A has a ship with ion cannon and initiative 3. B has two ships with two plasma missile components, one plasma cannon and initiative 2.

Flow of the combat:
* B shoots with his plasma missiles (4 dice)
* A shoots with his ion cannon
* B shoots with his plasma cannons
* B shoots with his plasma missiles (4 dice)
* A shoots with his ion cannon
* B shoots with his plasma cannons
* A shoots with his ion cannon
* B shoots with his plasma cannons
...
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Pierre Philippe Goyer
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Our group added a simple house rule that increase military interaction:

The battle VP token for participating in a battle is only given to the attacker no matter who wins the battle.

Our last game saw 1 defending poorly equipped interceptor standing as a guard got destroyed by an attacking interceptor. The attacker got 2 VP tokens of 1 value each and the defender got 1 token of value 4 for its puny ship without even spending 1 action. With our rule, he would not have taken a VP token.The attacker had he been destroyed would have drawn the same amount of VP token as the winning defender to justify his action.

Owll
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Scott Lewis
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How do you know what the other player drew?
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Pierre Philippe Goyer
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sigmazero13 wrote:
How do you know what the other player drew?


Because he laughed and showed its 4 VP token. Of course its all random, but rewarding a turtling defender for possibly a larger prize than the winner of a battle that he did not initiate is too much for our group.

By the way, this game is really well thought.

Owll
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Scott Lewis
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The same thing could happen if a player sent in a lone interceptor against a vastly superior fleet for the sole purpose of gaining that one shield. Obviously you don't know what you are going to get beforehand, but attacker or defender, it's still just as possible to have this disparity happen.
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Pierre Philippe Goyer
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Yes, this is true Scott.

But at least, he has played an action for its VP token and has also given 1 to the strong defender. So he loses.

And the situation you described is already as in the normal rules, so our house rule does not introduce or modify that situation.

Owll
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Jim Richardson

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You missed "make missiles require (x) energy." I really think that's the easiest and best way to balance them.
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Carter
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ParticleMan wrote:
You missed "make missiles require (x) energy." I really think that's the easiest and best way to balance them.


Thanks, I agree about this modification being a good solution if one feels PM are overpowered (actually I don't think so, perhaps tactically, but not strategically). However, though simple, it still represents 'modification to the cardboard', so I left it out.
 
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Mikko Saari
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owll wrote:
Our last game saw 1 defending poorly equipped interceptor standing as a guard got destroyed by an attacking interceptor. The attacker got 2 VP tokens of 1 value each and the defender got 1 token of value 4 for its puny ship without even spending 1 action. With our rule, he would not have taken a VP token.The attacker had he been destroyed would have drawn the same amount of VP token as the winning defender to justify his action.


The Battle of Thermopylae saw a small troop standing as a guard destroyed by a much larger attacking force. Now which side got the better reputation from the battle?

A 4-1 result is an extreme case, anyway.
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Michal Sebik
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I cannot find the houserule right now.. But it was about removing looser's reputation token by the winner of a combat.
Has anyone tried it?

As a desperate move to reduce someone's VP.. Does not seem that bad
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