Alessandro Grott
Germany
Frankfurt am Main
Hessen
flag msg tools
pg 23, Consequences of a Wildling Attack

"As elsewhere in A Game of Thrones: The Board Game, the outcome of ties in bidding are decided by the holder of the Iron Throne token. For example, if the lowest bid is tied between two players, the holder of the Iron Throne decides which of these two players is the lowest bidder."

when does this happen? before or after revealing the Wildling deck card?

I tried to look about it on the A Storm of Swords forums and official FAQs too, but could not find anything. So I wrote to FF support, they answered me but I still did not get it (maybe my question was not clear or I did not get the answer). Their answer was:

"This occurs before penalties are enacted on the Wildling cards."

Anyone, please ? I would go for the Iron Throne having to break ties before knowing what the Wildling attack effects are, but I can see good reasons also for the opposite.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiago Nunes
Portugal
Odivelas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would say that it is before the card is revealed as you count the tokens before the card is shown. I'm only saying this because in the rule book the explanation for the wildling attack card assumes you already know if the players won or lost and who is the highest/lowest bidder.

But I think further clarification is needed from FFG.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amin
Canada
flag msg tools
http://podcastoficeandfire.com/
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it would be before the card is revealed, as the rules currently stand. Breaking the tie is still part of the bidding process. I kind of imagine the wildling bidding in my head as a sort of "wildling influence track" where you order the players after the bid (but also count the total power spent). Sometimes there will be ties requiring a tie-break and sometimes there won't be.

That being said, I could see how you might interpret it the other way. Particularly why you might *want* to interpret it the other way.

In general, I don't like that the Wildling card is revealed after the bidding process is over. I think it is more interesting when we know what the card is and the strategic bidding and tie-breaking that comes from that. Right now it is a gamble every time, though it makes the Raven all the more powerful.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Laine
United States
Whittier
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fafhrd81 wrote:
"This occurs before penalties are enacted on the Wildling cards."


Sounds ambiguous to me. Of course it happens "before penalties are enacted," which can be defined as the moment when players lose their units, supply, dignity, etc. That's not the question at hand. The question is, are ties broken before or after the Wildling card is revealed?

As written, it could go either way. Here are two separate and valid orders of operation, as far as this clarification goes:

A

1) Players Bid
2) Ties are Broken
3) Wildling Card is Revealed
4) Penalties are Enacted

B

1) Players Bid
2) Wildling Card is Revealed
3) Ties are Broken
4) Penalties are Enacted

In fact, I might argue that the second interpretation is more valid because it puts tie-breaking more immediately "before penalties are enacted."

Please note, I actually don't know which way it should go, and what people are saying about tie-breaking as part of the bidding process separate from the card process makes a lot of sense. I'm just poking a hole in FFG's notoriously bad rules-explanations, which is why questions like this and endless FAQs always come up. You're right to be confused, and I'd ask for further clarification--they should choose option A or B.

Sabzevarian wrote:
In general, I don't like that the Wildling card is revealed after the bidding process is over. I think it is more interesting when we know what the card is and the strategic bidding and tie-breaking that comes from that. Right now it is a gamble every time, though it makes the Raven all the more powerful.


The whole point of the Wildling cards is that people don't know what will happen, though. It used to be a single standard action happens if the Wildlings are repelled, and a single standard action happens if the Wildlings succeed. Now the cards add some intrigue and uncertainty to the outcome. And letting everybody see the outcome would basically negate the Messenger Raven's new scouting function.

Let's say the "Nothing Happens" card comes up. Well, if the card is revealed to everybody, there's no incentive for anyone to contribute to the Night's Watch! You'll get everybody bidding 0.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amin
Canada
flag msg tools
http://podcastoficeandfire.com/
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
miesdeldolor9 wrote:
Fafhrd81 wrote:
"This occurs before penalties are enacted on the Wildling cards."



Sabzevarian wrote:
In general, I don't like that the Wildling card is revealed after the bidding process is over. I think it is more interesting when we know what the card is and the strategic bidding and tie-breaking that comes from that. Right now it is a gamble every time, though it makes the Raven all the more powerful.


The whole point of the Wildling cards is that people don't know what will happen, though. It used to be a single standard action happens if the Wildlings are repelled, and a single standard action happens if the Wildlings succeed. Now the cards add some intrigue and uncertainty to the outcome. And letting everybody see the outcome would basically negate the Messenger Raven's new scouting function.

Let's say the "Nothing Happens" card comes up. Well, if the card is revealed to everybody, there's no incentive for anyone to contribute to the Night's Watch! You'll get everybody bidding 0.


I agree that the 1st edition's single possibility Wildling attack was boring. The Storm of Swords expansion added Wildling cards similar to the ones we have in the 2nd editoin, adding some variety. However, they were revealed before the bidding process.

The key difference with the change in the 2nd edition is the new Raven ability, as you mentioned. It is part of making the Raven even more powerful than before. (If) my group was going to play a wildling variant similar to the original game, then we would remove that nothing happens card from the deck. Although some of the other text, such as the second Wildling attack, are specifically designed for the hidden card system.

Anyway, I am just saying I preferred the old system, but the new one may very well grow on me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiago Nunes
Portugal
Odivelas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, I asked the question to FFG:

ghosthack wrote:
I have a question about timing when bidding for the Wildling attack if two or more players are tied the player with the Iron throne token will decide who is the highest/lowest bidder (depending if the bid was won or not).

My question is: Is the bid tie broken before or after the Wildling attack card has been revealed?


An this was the answer:

FFG Support wrote:
The tie is broken before the resolution of any penalties or rewards, but after the card is actually revealed.


So you get to see the card before the player with the Iron Throne token actually breaks the tie.
8 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Siegfried
Japan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually ran into the same question last night playing this with my wife (3-player game with one imaginary player....he never supports me though). I was going to send in this question myself until I saw your post.
: )
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Grott
Germany
Frankfurt am Main
Hessen
flag msg tools
Thanks a lot everyone! Hopefully this will be included in the official FAQ.

Even if in the end this is not such a common situation, this certainly makes the Iron Throne a little stronger. Deciding who is the lower bidder when Rattleshirt's Raiders or Skinchanger Scout come out could well be a death sentence in some situations.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Castell
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
This makes sense.
This gives a little more power to the Iron Throne, now you can truly hurt the one you don't love.
It also gives more reason to use the Raven ability.
Last night the player holding it told a few of us when the others were out having a smoke, that we shouldn't lose the next wildings attack bid.
He had seen the card.
He also knew that the highest bidder would get to keep his tokens and the lowest one would lose all of his.
Had the card been revealed before the bidding, this wouldn't have worked out too well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.