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A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Siege Engine movement question rss

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This may have been covered before but I have a question about resolving an assault using the glorious Siege Engines.
What I know is they can attack/support at +4 against a Castle/Stronghold making them very powerful. To offset this they defend at 0, cannot be used as a casualty and cannot retreat. Also they cost 2 muster points or 1 muster point by upgrading a footman.

Since you can use any number of ships to march in an attack, imagine a scenario when you have 2 Siege Engines and 1 Footman on a distant shore/island which would attack with +9 strength since all 3 units would be committed for the march/attack. If the attack fails (unlikely) then my interpretation is the Siege Engines cannot retreat so they are removed from the board, but the Footman could retreat back or be killed.
If the attack is successful, then X number of attacking force can move in to control the new area while the remaining units can hang back from their original attacking point. Is this move back to the attack start position through the ships considered a retreat? And if so, does that mean that Siege Engines cannot go back? Or is this movement through multiple ships just considered like movement between an adjacent land region making it legal to keep the Siege Engines on the island and march 1 Footman in to claim the Castle/Stronghold. Under these conditions for a successful attack, what is possible?

And last question, can a Siege Engine (or a Knight) be downgraded to a Footman through a Muster? Particularly if you've hit your supply limit, would this allow an exchange of the 2 cost unit for the 1 cost Footman. Thanks all
 
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Matt Shinners
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When you march into an attack, you have already declared which units are going to attack. They move into the territory. In the event they win, those units are committed to staying in that territory. You can't decide, at that point, to leave a few attacking units behind from whence they came.
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Jarek W
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Why would you like to downgrade your units?
(Ok, there can be situation when you want to deploy heavier force in one area, but all of your knights and siege unites are already on the board)

You mention a situation when hitting a supply limit, but since a footman, knight or siege unit are single pieces they all count as 1 towards the army size. So downgrading units won't help if your supply dropped.
E.g. you have army consisting of 4 knights and the supply of 5 resources. You lost one territory last turn and there the card is drawn that orders to adjust supply track. Your maximum army size is now only 3 as you have 4 resources. You have to destroy one knight. Downgrading it to a footmen will still force you to destroy it. So there's no point in it (besides an example given before).
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Darren Nakamura
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I could think of another more common situation where you'd want to downgrade. Suppose you take a Castle with a Siege Engine, and now you want to defend it (I believe this happens occasionally!). Wouldn't you rather have a Footman than a Siege Engine?

That said, I don't think it's allowed.
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Amin
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You can't voluntary downgrade your units.

You could be forced to do so via one of those Wildling cards though (knights to footmen)
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Dean O
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Hi thunderbox, just to further clarify what has been said, siege engines and knights cost two points to muster (or one when upgrading a footman), but only count as one unit for supply.
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Thanks for all the answers/clarification -
We have only played the game a few times and it looks like we doing combat incorrectly. I guess our first mistake here is we were playing the game like the battle took place right at the border between adjacent areas. Because of this we were failing to selectively declare how many units are attacking (since they could only march 1 place when attacking we figured why not use them all). And then afterwards we were giving the attacker the option of how many to move from the preceived battlefield/border into the new territory and how many stayed back. This might have been carry-over rules from other games we play and from us trying to dive into the GoT with only skimming the rules.

Now it seems very clear, and after re-reading the establish control section of the rules with a power token, it makes perfect sense. If you want to attack with all your forces, then you have to decide before the attack if you want to leave a token. Otherwise somebody has to stay behind to guard the fort from Krackens.

As for the downgrading of units idea, I think I saw it posted earlier in the forum as more of private game rules some people like to play. I was trying to get a barometer as to how legal this was officially or if other considered playing with a downgrade rule.
 
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Also for the downgraade, since we are limited to 2 Siege Engines there might be times when you have 2 deployed somewhere on the board and there is no easy way to move them to a new front of battle. My reading of the rules was also that there was no way to tear them down or legally destroy them through purposely by exceeding the supply limit.



 
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Radosław Michalak
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With this mistake I want to add something about support:
Remember that only units from areas adjacent to attacked area can provide support, not units from areas adjacent to attacking area.
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Radko Ivanov
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Can you please clarify something for me:

When you attack with an army that contains a Siege Engine, you the defender wins the battle, is your Siege Engine destroyed? (is this considered retreat for you, as in the rules I found only SE can not retreat, I don't know if unsuccessful attack is considered for a retreat)

P.S. Do you know it from a FAQ that I have not found?
 
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Martin Hall
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Inhuman wrote:
Can you please clarify something for me:

When you attack with an army that contains a Siege Engine, you the defender wins the battle, is your Siege Engine destroyed? (is this considered retreat for you, as in the rules I found only SE can not retreat, I don't know if unsuccessful attack is considered for a retreat)

P.S. Do you know it from a FAQ that I have not found?
A SE that loses a battle is destroyed, whether attacking or defending. Note - a SE that is just supporting is not destroyed if its side loses.
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Andrew Rice
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Inhuman wrote:
P.S. Do you know it from a FAQ that I have not found?


It's on page 3 of the FAQ:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/agot-bg-2nd-ed...
 
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Ioan Mitiu
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Quick question
Hi all !

I have a quick ( and maybe stupid ) question : is necessary to have support to a Siege Engine - a footman or a knight when attacking ?

And actually another one : if there is only one siege tower left in a region and this get attacked it will be automatically destroyed and the battle lost or not ?

Thanks in advance for any clarification !
 
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Matteo Angioletti
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Ioan76_TM wrote:
Hi all !

I have a quick ( and maybe stupid ) question : is necessary to have support to a Siege Engine - a footman or a knight when attacking ?

And actually another one : if there is only one siege tower left in a region and this get attacked it will be automatically destroyed and the battle lost or not ?

Thanks in advance for any clarification !



1- Siege Engines behave like other units regarding attack and support. (Note that they provide strenght only if supporting an attack against a stronghold or a castle)

2- The SE provides 0 strenght, but the battle still take place and both the contenders have to play an house card. A Siege Engine can't route, so if you lose the battle it is always destroyed.
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Matteo Balduzzi
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I'll take advantage to this thread to ask something about Siege engine movement.
In last play I've made (but I'm talking about 1st edition of the game), there's someone who stated that a Siege engine must not stand alone in a territory, but it has to be accompanied at least by one other unit (Footman or Knight). It could move alone from a territory to another only if in the starting one AND the ending one there is at least one other unit.
I ran to check this rule to see if it's showed on the 2nd edition too, but it has no mention about it.
Can someone kindly tell me if this rule is correct? Or do I have to suppose that my friend has told me a wrong rule even for the first edition?
 
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Radosław Michalak
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Balduz wrote:
I'll take advantage to this thread to ask something about Siege engine movement.
In last play I've made (but I'm talking about 1st edition of the game), there's someone who stated that a Siege engine must not stand alone in a territory, but it has to be accompanied at least by one other unit (Footman or Knight). It could move alone from a territory to another only if in the starting one AND the ending one there is at least one other unit.
I ran to check this rule to see if it's showed on the 2nd edition too, but it has no mention about it.
Can someone kindly tell me if this rule is correct? Or do I have to suppose that my friend has told me a wrong rule even for the first edition?

False in 2nd ecition.
For 1st see http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/a_game_of_thro...
Also no rule for that. SE are same as other units.
 
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David Xaezero
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To go further on the question about downgrading troops during mustering and such...

Situation:
-Imagine a musteringcard came up.
-All my Knights are already on the board.
-I have a Stronghold near an ennemy's territory that already contains a FM and a KN.

Context:
Now, I see my ennemy mustering a siege engine and I fear for an imminent attack in the next turn. Reinforcing my own territory is thus vital. As a stronghold gives 2 mustering points for that area, I'd like to add a knight. But as I mentioned... all my Knights are already deployed in other territories. I could add 2 FM instead but then I would surpass my supply limit.

Possible Solution (legal/illegal)?:
Can I then change a knight into 2 FM in another territory and take the KN I just changed, to put in my territory with the stronghold; or does my supply limit refrains me from reinforcing that position?

Example (This is just thought up right now and not from actual gameplay, so the example might be wrong or weird, but I think I got the example right):

Current Situation--What I'd want----Situation exceeding Suplly
---3-2-2----------------3-2-2-------------------3-2-2----------- Actual Supply Limit
---2-2-/----------------3-2-2 -------------------4-2-/--------- Actual Supply Usage
1 FM + 1 KN --> 1 FM + 1 KN + 1 KN --> 1 FM + 1 KN + 1 FM + 1 FM
1 FM + 1 FM --> 1 FM + 1 FM ******--> 1 FM + 1 FM
1 KN ******--> 1 FM + 1 FM ******--> 1 KN

Now, remember that I want to change the KN because I don't have any other knight offboard, and I'd like to place a KN in that territory to give me + 2 strength. I still have lots of FM offboard, but as you can see... placing 2 FM to achieve 2 strength will make me surpass my supply limit.

I hope you guys can understand my chaotic question modest
 
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Radosław Michalak
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XaezeroPi wrote:
To go further on the question about downgrading troops during mustering and such...

Situation:
-Imagine a musteringcard came up.
-All my Knights are already on the board.
-I have a Stronghold near an ennemy's territory that already contains a FM and a KN.

Context:
Now, I see my ennemy mustering a siege engine and I fear for an imminent attack in the next turn. Reinforcing my own territory is thus vital. As a stronghold gives 2 mustering points for that area, I'd like to add a knight. But as I mentioned... all my Knights are already deployed in other territories. I could add 2 FM instead but then I would surpass my supply limit.

Possible Solution (legal/illegal)?:
Can I then change a knight into 2 FM in another territory and take the KN I just changed, to put in my territory with the stronghold; or does my supply limit refrains me from reinforcing that position?

Example (This is just thought up right now and not from actual gameplay, so the example might be wrong or weird, but I think I got the example right):

Current Situation--What I'd want----Situation exceeding Suplly
---3-2-2----------------3-2-2-------------------3-2-2----------- Actual Supply Limit
---2-2-/----------------3-2-2 -------------------4-2-/--------- Actual Supply Usage
1 FM + 1 KN --> 1 FM + 1 KN + 1 KN --> 1 FM + 1 KN + 1 FM + 1 FM
1 FM + 1 FM --> 1 FM + 1 FM ******--> 1 FM + 1 FM
1 KN ******--> 1 FM + 1 FM ******--> 1 KN

Now, remember that I want to change the KN because I don't have any other knight offboard, and I'd like to place a KN in that territory to give me + 2 strength. I still have lots of FM offboard, but as you can see... placing 2 FM to achieve 2 strength will make me surpass my supply limit.

I hope you guys can understand my chaotic question modest

What you want to do changes nothing.
Moreover changing knight to 2 footmen would be much desired in certain situations.
Do you see any sentence in rules which allows you to do that?
No.
 
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Martin Hall
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Not permitted to reduce or change any existing units.
Muster only allows you to:
a) add units; or
b) upgrade existing FM (to Kn or SE)

In your hypothetical, you could add a FM to the threatened area, but not a Kn (due to all being used already). The other muster point would be unused (unless you could buy a ship).
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