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Lock 'n Load: Forgotten Heroes – Vietnam» Forums » General

Subject: How is OpFire handled in this system? rss

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Jim Jackson

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I have never played the LnL system, just curious about how OpFire is handled in this system.

I would really love to have a Vietnam era tactical game, however, do not want to invest if the system allows unrealistic (gamey) rules with regard to automatic weapons (i.e. machine guns), are the rules solid enough to prevent a unit from charging an automatic weapon in an unrealistic mannner.

Thanks for any info on this subject.

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p55carroll
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Falcon2 wrote:
I have never played the LnL system, just curious about how OpFire is handled in this system.

It's pretty simple. A unit that hasn't moved or fired yet during the current turn can fire at an enemy unit that moves within its range and line of fire. The opponent's movement is interrupted until the op-fire attack is resolved.

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I would really love to have a Vietnam era tactical game, however, do not want to invest if the system allows unrealistic (gamey) rules with regard to automatic weapons (i.e. machine guns), are the rules solid enough to prevent a unit from charging an automatic weapon in an unrealistic mannner.

Opinions vary widely on that question. Since you're asking the question and seem pretty concerned about it, you might end up disappointed.

Besides LnL, the only squad-based game I've played is Squad Leader and ASL. In ASL, machine guns are pretty complex; there are special rules for spraying fire, rate of fire, fire lanes, and so forth, and the whole Defensive Fire Phase is complicated. In LnL, there are no phases; it's an impulse-based game. Machine guns add firepower and usually have more range than other small arms, but that's about it. Sometimes it's possible to close in and capture a machine-gun position in melee combat; other times you get shot up on the way in.

My impression is that in ASL you don't dare move in the open, ever; you win by pouring massed firepower into the enemy from covered positions. In LnL, it's also risky to move in the open, and it pays to take advantage of covered positions and pour firepower into the enemy; but you do end up closing with the enemy and fighting same-hex melees much more often than you do in ASL.

I like the feel of LnL a lot better myself. I don't know or care enough about the realism of machine guns for it to matter to me.

But don't take my word for it, or anyone's. Try LnL for yourself. You can download a free demo here. It's quick and easy to print and play any of the two or three free demo games. Try it and see if it works for you. That's what I did.
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Jim Jackson

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Thanks for the replies, I have decided to go ahead and purchase this game. I just can't pass up a squad level combat wargame with Vietnam as the setting. It will be a welcome change from all the WWII tactical games. Yes, I guess all games are "gamey", and I just have a feeling that this system won't disappoint me too much in that area. One of the "gamey" situations that I really didn't like about ASL was "shulking", although it didn't ruin the realism for me, and I would use it when it was to my advantage. Thanks for the links to the demo.
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Steve Pultorak
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You won't be sorry, Jim.
I own the Combat Commander system as well as the Conflict of Heroes games.

They are good games but I don't know what it is about LnL's Heroes system that works so well. Besides LnL's fabulous components, the games play smoothly, quickly and full of excitement... face-to-face or solo.

It's a system that takes some getting used to but after playing a few times, you never forget the mechanics and rules.


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Jim Jackson

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Thanks for the imput Steve, I also have Combat Commander and the Conflict of Heroes games. I trust your judgment, and I have just placed my order for Lock-n-Load: Forgotten Heroes; Vietnam. Thanks again!
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Mark Walker
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I've played Combat Commander and CoH also. I like LnL better too.... but I think CC is a lot of fun!
 
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Jim Jackson

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Mark,

I agree, Combat Commander is a great system, I was not much on cards in a wargame, however; it works well for a squad level tactical game. Additionally, even when you are getting pounded, you still have a chance. I have only played CC Europe, however, I would like to get the other modules. Only downside is no tanks, but combat at this scale seems to make tanks hard to incorporate. I did get Fighting Formations, but have only played solo, I like it just as much as CC, eventually I will get the other CC modules and all future Fighting Formations.

Conflict of heroes is also a good system, (I have all of the modules). But, I am a little put off by the fact that each release adds more rules, although the rules are not complicated, it is beginning to be more rule heavy than fun. I can't imagine what Guadalcanal will add. Plus, the Fog of War, using hidden movement on paper just does not work for me.

I am looking forward to my first LnL game, maybe it will hit the sweet spot that balances the fun to realism ratio, that right now seems to be lacking in tactical squad games. (I am learning Band of Brothers, Screaming Eagles, and it is very promising)

Hopefully, after I play LnL Vietnam, I will want the WWII LnL games, something tells me that I will. Thanks for creating a
a Vietnam War era squad level game, most other designers seem to shy away from this subject for some reason. I'm looking forward to play LnL Vietnam--Soon!
 
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Mark Walker
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Thank you, Jim. I hope that you will like the game. I agree with your assessment of hidden movement...too time consuming. Screaming Eagles uses a form of it with dummy counters. I think it is the weak link in the system.
 
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Andrew Brown
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To be honest I think the spotting mechanic handles this perfectly anything more than that seems to me to be unrealistic in terms of "hiding" things. It is a game and things are abstracted.
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p55carroll
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ab5000 wrote:
To be honest I think the spotting mechanic handles this perfectly anything more than that seems to me to be unrealistic in terms of "hiding" things. It is a game and things are abstracted.

I guess it's a design decision that could go either way. Depends on what effect you want. If you just want to simulate the fact that those guys down on the game board are trying to hide from each other, the Spotting system works fine. If you want to hide things from the player and make him guess, you can go with hidden placement, concealment and dummy markers, and so forth.

As a player, I like see what's going on, even if those little guys on the game board can't.
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Mark Walker
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Quote:
As a player, I like see what's going on, even if those little guys on the game board can't.


Yep, it is difficult enough remembering rules without needing to remember what is under a dummy or concealment counter.
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