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Subject: concentrate fire and ammo rss

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Jordan Kehrer
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West Grove
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6.6 of the 2nd addition rules says that if a firing unit tracks ammunition, it uses two ammunition points instead of one if it successfully concentrates fire. Since a unit can be ordered to concentrate fire multiple times per turn during different impulses, does it just expended 1 extra ammo for each success? So if my CO HQ has the unit concentrate and then the units platoon HQ has it concentrate and they both succeed, do you use 3 ammo that turn?
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Dave Howe
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That's how I understand it. Whomever has the lowest VOF and is firing (placed a PDF) would use an additional ammo for each successful call to Concentrate Fire.

So in this case, 3 sounds correct (1 for initial, and 1 additional for each Concentrate Fire).
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Steve Bishop
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Lytham St. Annes
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jk12559 wrote:
6.6 of the 2nd addition rules says that if a firing unit tracks ammunition, it uses two ammunition points instead of one if it successfully concentrates fire. Since a unit can be ordered to concentrate fire multiple times per turn during different impulses, does it just expended 1 extra ammo for each success? So if my CO HQ has the unit concentrate and then the units platoon HQ has it concentrate and they both succeed, do you use 3 ammo that turn?


You've lost me a bit here, once you have acheived concentration why would you attempt it again?

There is only one phase where fire is resolved am I missing something?
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Phil Miller
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Although the concentrate fire effects are cumlative, I don't believe it was intended that a single unit could successfully concentrate fire more than once per turn. I could be wrong but once you have concentrated fire with say a machine gun, how do you concentrate fire even more?

-Phil
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Roger Grossman
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That's a good point, Phil. The RAW don't explicitly prohibit the same unit from attempting CF actions in successive impulses of the same turn, but I agree that may not be the intention. OTOH, maybe the idea is that the more attention leaders spend on directing fire, the more accurate the fire gets. In that sense, maybe it IS possible to concentrate fire "even more." If that is the case, I would guess that a unit tracking ammo spends 2 ammo points for each successful CF action that turn.

Maybe Ricky will chime in on this one.

RG
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Phil Miller
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moosepuppy wrote:
That's a good point, Phil. The RAW don't explicitly prohibit the same unit from attempting CF actions in successive impulses of the same turn, but I agree that may not be the intention. OTOH, maybe the idea is that the more attention leaders spend on directing fire, the more accurate the fire gets. In that sense, maybe it IS possible to concentrate fire "even more." If that is the case, I would guess that a unit tracking ammo spends 2 ammo points for each successful CF action that turn.

Maybe Ricky will chime in on this one.

RG


Yeah it would be interesting to hear from Ricky or Ben.

-Phil
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Ben Hull
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PhilFromIT wrote:
Although the concentrate fire effects are cumulative, I don't believe it was intended that a single unit could successfully concentrate fire more than once per turn. I could be wrong but once you have concentrated fire with say a machine gun, how do you concentrate fire even more?

-Phil


Sorry Phil, but that is the intent. A unit could be successfully concentrate fire multiple times in a turn. Keep in mind that an ammo point is 200-300 rounds of ammo. A turn is an abstract amount of time ranging from 15 min to an hour. Even at 15 minutes a machine gun could fire 600+ rounds easily. Given that an M1919A4 LMG had a cyclic rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute you could burn through all your ammo in a few minutes. A successful concentrate fire captures a discrete moment within a turn when a unit is ordered to increase their volume against a more specific target - the event could cover 1-2 minutes of actual time.

Thanks
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Ben, IIRC you mentioned somewhere that a normal VOF marker represented basically suppressive fire against an area target, and that the Concentrate Fire modifier represented leaders pointing out and directing their units fire at a point target.
Something like that?
 
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Phil Miller
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benhull wrote:
PhilFromIT wrote:
Although the concentrate fire effects are cumulative, I don't believe it was intended that a single unit could successfully concentrate fire more than once per turn. I could be wrong but once you have concentrated fire with say a machine gun, how do you concentrate fire even more?

-Phil


Sorry Phil, but that is the intent. A unit could be successfully concentrate fire multiple times in a turn. Keep in mind that an ammo point is 200-300 rounds of ammo. A turn is an abstract amount of time ranging from 15 min to an hour. Even at 15 minutes a machine gun could fire 600+ rounds easily. Given that an M1919A4 LMG had a cyclic rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute you could burn through all your ammo in a few minutes. A successful concentrate fire captures a discrete moment within a turn when a unit is ordered to increase their volume against a more specific target - the event could cover 1-2 minutes of actual time.

Thanks


No problem. Now that you explain it like that, it makes sense. I may have to try this in my next game, especially against those nasty HMGs in pillboxes. Thanks!

-Phil

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Roger Grossman
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Hey, Ben.

One thing I've always been curious about with regards to Concentrate Fire: It seems like there's a strong incentive to use your S units to CF before your A units, if possible, since S units don't run out of ammo (and it's a -1 mod regardless). Is that intentional? I've wondered what would happen if A units got a -2 mod for CF, to give them added incentive to CF, but I assume that would make them disproportionately powerful.

RG
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Kenneth Lury
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moosepuppy wrote:
Hey, Ben.

One thing I've always been curious about with regards to Concentrate Fire: It seems like there's a strong incentive to use your S units to CF before your A units, if possible, since S units don't run out of ammo (and it's a -1 mod regardless). Is that intentional? I've wondered what would happen if A units got a -2 mod for CF, to give then added incentive to CF, but I assume that would make them disproportionately powerful.

RG


Good point Roger
 
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