Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
25 Posts

Dungeon Run» Forums » General

Subject: "Grindy" friends - especially the Paladin rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jason Khuu
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I recently played a game where the Paladin did nothing but grind the Den when it showed up. He leveled up a lot and was pretty much able to kill anyone easily.

What happened was that most of us tackled the boss while he just walked in and out of the den and leveled up a bunch. Summoner walks by and he bashes him with like 10 dice.

My question is, why wouldn't the paladin do this every game? It's such an easy way to win the game. Sit by the den, killing stuff and getting stronger (rallying for 3 health with the right abilities) while the others get the stone for you and then you kill everyone afterward. I don't want to play the game again because after seeing this, everyone adopted the mentality that the best way to play the game is to "grind" levels and have someone else deal with the boss.

You could argue that you could sabotage him or whatever, but it won't matter because if he dies, he'll get back up and keep doing it and no progress will be made in terms of getting the stone out. This was my dilemma because 1) I couldn't "kill" him until the boss was dead. and 2) If I spend time killing the boss, he ends up being too strong (and has too many abilities) for me to kill.

Thoughts?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergiu Ionut
Romania
Roman
Neamt
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I don't think my opinion matters much. I only played a few solo matches but here's my 2 cent:

Some hero abilities are overpowered and some are almost useless. The same goes for some of the items and dungeon tiles. There are many more rants I have about this game but I don't want to bore you.

Overall, I find the game to be buggy and untested. Now, about your problem. Either team up and kick his a** over and over (tough luck if it's a 2-player game) or simply make a house-rule.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Conan Meriadoc
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, it seems to me your paladin was incredibly lucky with his rolls and encounter draws.

When exiting-reentering the den, there is only a 50% chance to spawn an encounter card, which means a whole turn is wasted half of the time. Out of the encounter deck, a good number are useless or detrimental - Uber monsters, traps (only 1 talent doesn't help), skeletons - and some of the other monsters can take quite a long time to kill. Especially with only 4 initial dice to fight them, which is very low.

The game goes quite fast, I don't really understand how your paladin managed to grind so many levels before the boss is slain by the other players. I'd expect him (with normal rolls) to be able to get around two level-ups, whereas the others would have at least one, probably two, and shiny items to boot, so the difference would often be in favor of the others...
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Belocas
United States
Natick
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with Conan. Plus the set up of the dungeon makes a big difference too. Where the Den is in the dungeon may not be anywhere near the boss or exit then it's very hard to catch up with someone heading for the exit with the stone.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Khelz Underworld
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sergiu: maybe you should give your opinion about how much the game is "buggy and untested" after you really play more than "a few solo matches"...

My 2 cents. whistle
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Belocas
United States
Natick
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I love this game. Even painted the figures. There's more strategy and diplomacy then I anticipated. And I like that the game doesn't take forever to play. If you're having a bad/unlucky game round then there's always the next game. And there is a subtle technique to timing too. To be in the right place at the right time to either, put the finishing blow on a monster, swing in and swipe up a treasure, or where the boss might or might not be.

Just my two cents....
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Khuu
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The den was the 3rd tile in so he was able to just pop out of it and stop the summoner after the summoner trudged from the boss lair.

I guess he was lucky enough to get an encounter more than 50% of the time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Lowe
msg tools
mb
s3rgiu01 wrote:
Well, I don't think my opinion matters much. I only played a few solo matches but here's my 2 cent:

Some hero abilities are overpowered and some are almost useless. The same goes for some of the items and dungeon tiles. There are many more rants I have about this game but I don't want to bore you.

Overall, I find the game to be buggy and untested. Now, about your problem. Either team up and kick his a** over and over (tough luck if it's a 2-player game) or simply make a house-rule.


Agree 100%
The game is untested.
We played a game other might and there was a 3 tile comba that was unstopable and you couldnt escape.

My copy is on ebay now!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
narcosis219 wrote:
I guess he was lucky enough to get an encounter more than 50% of the time.

And lucky not to get any of the "assist-only" encounters?

Tyvan wrote:
We played a game other might and there was a 3 tile comba that was unstopable and you couldnt escape.

Errrm, I don't even know what that means? Could you elaborate?

For me the term "unstoppable" doesn't seem to fit tiles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Rouse
United States
Thibodaux
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yea, you might want to list the names of the tiles and what was the problem. I'm fairly sure there is no unstoppable combination of tiles. Sounds like you're jumping to conclusions. The only unstoppable situation I've heard of is if an assist-only monster roams into a no escape room and you're playing solo... though in that case, I'd have to wonder what the solo player was doing roaming a monster into that room in the first place.

On the original topic, 10 dice really isn't a huge deal in the late game. I anticipate players getting at least to this level (not sure how you could beat the boss without that many dice). We've seen 21 dice in one case (the Tome was involved, obviously).

If you think he's too powerful, team up against him. One hero is rarely stronger than all of the other heroes with their might combined.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T B
Australia
South Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There's also the optional thumbs up / thumbs down rule where if everyone votes to, you can kill a player that is 'dead' permanently.

If he really is 'breaking' the game, enact this rule.

CRC
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gert Corthout
Belgium
Lille
Antwerpen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't really get this strategy, maybe he was just lucky.
You can generate more encounters just by exploring new tiles, and it will be easier too. Usually it takes only 1 action to get to a new tile (instead of 2 to step out and back in the den) and a lot of tiles have more then 50% chance to get an encounter.
Even then if he gets an uber monster in the den he'll be crying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
duncan easton
England
Leeds
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think people should be very careful about using words like 'untested'. Expressing your opinion is obviously fine and should be encouraged but saying something is 'untested' is a claim of fact which I very much doubt you can back up. Comments made here can have an impact on sales so traducing the reputation of a games producer isn't a particularly nice thing to do.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergiu Ionut
Romania
Roman
Neamt
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
dreaming_idiot wrote:
I think people should be very careful about using words like 'untested'. Expressing your opinion is obviously fine and should be encouraged but saying something is 'untested' is a claim of fact which I very much doubt you can back up. Comments made here can have an impact on sales so traducing the reputation of a games producer isn't a particularly nice thing to do.


First of all, I'm really sorry for the long post I'm gonna write blush

"Untested" is a harsh word and maybe I exaggerated, but let me explain why I have this opinion about the game. I did manage to play some 2 player and 4 player games but mostly solo sessions.

- the solo game is simply not fun. It's just you running around 6 random tiles and if you have bad luck, most of them won't even have encounters or items or even worse, they might have a monster immune to your attacks. This is just a way to test the combat and the luck involved in exploring the dungeon with a random boss at the end, a boss that could also be immune to your attacks;
- I find the game to be tilted towards the brawn rating. The item deck has way more weapons for attacking with brawn than with magic
- On the other hand, there's an artifatct that doubles your magic rating. Is this how they balance the previous issue?;
- the hero card abilities are unbalanced. You need to be pretty lucky to draw a useful one.
- you need a lot of luck when exploring the dungeon. Also, there aren't enought tiles for a 5 & 6 player game so you need even more luck to find something;

Small example: I played a 4 player game last night.

1.Paelleall the Ranger had a very good run. 2 level-ups and some decent items and ability cards. Unfortunately she got greedy with power and ran in the Den, needing one more encounter for a level-up. Bad draw = lots of wounds. She was easily killed when she got to the player with the Summoning Stone.

2.Emma Goodluck had an average run. One level-up and one useless item. She was the one who drew the last tile and revealed the boss after a long corridor. She had to pass through The Underground Channel and Portcullis Room to get there so she took some wounds. She didn't do much against the boss because he soon teleported to the other side of the dungeon. This meant she had to go through the 2 special tiles all over again and took some more wounds. She never got to fight the boss again. The player with the Summoning Stone sent a monster to finish her off.

3.Dorgan the Dwarf had the worst run ever. He got only one level-up after the boss was defeated and drew 2 useless ability cards. He got the most items (I think he got 4 or 5) but ALL of them were useless to him. He had very few encounters except the last one that pinned him 2 tiles away from the hero with the Summoning Stone. He just sat and watched how that hero won the game.

4.Vargagg the Orc had a decent run. He got one level-up and 2 good items. He killed the boss and took his artifact. After that he sent a monster that killed Emma, he killed Paelleall with his red ability on his hero card as soon as she entered his tile and then ran for the exit, laughing at the dwarf who was pinned far far away...

Overall, we had a good time with some funny stories at the end but mostly because the game always seems to end before frustration kicks in. The rest of the game just needs some expasions or variants. The teleporting boss, the running winner, player controlled roaming monsters, impossible bosses and/or monsters, large amount of luck involved in exploring, leveling your hero and looting, bad or unrewarding co-op, all these things dumb down the fun combat system.

I never said the game was bad, but I don't think it's as good as many people here say it is.
snore


4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gert Corthout
Belgium
Lille
Antwerpen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree the game has a lot of luck and not everyone likes that.

But I think you played something wrong: when a monster (a boss is a monster) shares a tile with a hero it will not roam. So the boss should have stayed with Emma.

If he wasn't sharing the tile with Emma, then the player made a beginner's mistake. You have to make sure that when you reveal the boss tile either you can get into the boss room (no encounter rolled, escape or get rid of the encounter on reveal, use your second action to get to the boss), or you are the start player and then roam the boss on yourself (unless it's immune to your stat of course ).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Rouse
United States
Thibodaux
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Most dice and card games involve a lot of luck. Something can be luck based and unbalanced without necessarily being untested. I don't like solo games in general, but I find it an amazing multiplayer game because even though one person can get a lot of good or bad luck, that can always be mitigated by smart play by the rest of the group if they communicate and are agreeable. You have so many options for interacting with other players: Attacking them, assisting, sabotaging, roaming monsters toward or away from them, trading. There are no situations that can't be overcome by negotiation and cooperation.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Belocas
United States
Natick
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The reason I think, IMHO, that the solo game doesn't play so well is this game is more about the character/social interaction than just a dungeon crawl. Which is why I like it. It's a teeter totter balance of working together and stabbing in the back and running away.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Heidenreich

Palm Bay
Florida
msg tools
I have had a problem with "leveling" in the past two games I played with two certain people. They both made an alliance to help each other for most of the game and when the den came up they just went in and out leveling. They continued to do this during the end game while everyone else was fighting. The glyph room was right infront of the exit so they took their leveling party there while the summoner and another person started leveling at the den. It made for a very long and boring endgame. I'm thinking of making a house rule to stop the den and other green tiles from generating more encounters once the summoning stone is picked up...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course the Den only generates a new encounter 50% of the time, right?

Does the Den generate a free battle action every time you enter and roll a new encounter?

Normally running into a new encounter gives you a free battle action, but that's also normally when you first flip the tile.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
Abdullah Ibrahim and Ekaya - Sotho Blue
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Khelz wrote:
Sergiu: maybe you should give your opinion about how much the game is "buggy and untested" after you really play more than "a few solo matches"...

My 2 cents. whistle

Sergiu acknowledged his level of experience up front - what more do you want? If you think that makes his ideas invalid, feel free to skip them. I'm glad he was willing to share his thoughts, and hope comments like yours won't discourage him from doing so in the future.

[edit] After posting, I see that he answered for himself. And very well, too, if you ask me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
Abdullah Ibrahim and Ekaya - Sotho Blue
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rainbow Snake wrote:
Does the Den generate a free battle action every time you enter and roll a new encounter?

Sounds to me like it should. That's how I'll play it unless I hear an official ruling to the contrary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Bistro
United States
Richmond
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep. That's how it works.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
glenn3e glenn3e
Malaysia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dystopian wrote:
Well, it seems to me your paladin was incredibly lucky with his rolls and encounter draws.

When exiting-reentering the den, there is only a 50% chance to spawn an encounter card, which means a whole turn is wasted half of the time. Out of the encounter deck, a good number are useless or detrimental - Uber monsters, traps (only 1 talent doesn't help), skeletons - and some of the other monsters can take quite a long time to kill. Especially with only 4 initial dice to fight them, which is very low.

The game goes quite fast, I don't really understand how your paladin managed to grind so many levels before the boss is slain by the other players. I'd expect him (with normal rolls) to be able to get around two level-ups, whereas the others would have at least one, probably two, and shiny items to boot, so the difference would often be in favor of the others...


Furthermore, the Paladin usually eats all the trap damage with his measly 1 Skill die. In our game, the Paladin tried to grind the Den and ate 3 traps back to back, knocking himself out in the process. The next encounter after that was an assist only monster that caused everyone to run away from.

Grinding the Den is not always the wisest thing to do, its better to try exploring new tiles with chance of getting Treasures rather than 50% chance of getting an Encounter only.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Kiger
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
If someone is grinding in the den, you could be kill stealing them. You could also think about knocking them down and taking their stuff if they get beat up doing this. I'm also not really sure that the den is the best place to level. Unrevealed tiles often have a better chance of generating an encounter, and the obvious bonus of treasure potential.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Sundström
Sweden
Bollnäs
Hälsingland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I tried to "grind" the Den in our last game since I was one Encounter card from Advancing. But I had some bad dice rolling and as I remeber, I never got the Encounter. If you're lucky, I can see how the Den can be to your favour, but if you're unlycky, it can spell your doom. The Paladin in OP's game was lucky, but that same tactic won't work as well the next time, believe you me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.