Tom Williamson
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Managed to play my second AGOT game with my wife over the weekend. It all went well other than the rookie mistake of taking power won on power challenges out of the pool, rather than from the opposing player's house card. Core Stark v Lannister feels a little more balanced than Core Baratheon v Lannister, especially with Wildfire Assault keeping Stark's characters in check. 15-14 to Lannister in the end.

Anyway, a few questions arose out of the game and I just wanted to make sure that we dealt with them correctly:

1. Re Nymeria, I just wanted to check that the +1 strength and stealth only resolves if Nymeria is knelt to save Arya, i.e. Arya does not gain this effect upon Nymeria being attached to her. Also, when Nymeria is stood during the standing phase, does Arya lose stealth and +1 strength? If she doesn't, is the strength modifier cumulative, i.e. if Arya is saved by Nymeria five times, she becomes a 7 strength powerhouse?

2. Where the Framework Action Window refers to "player actions", I presume that any player can take an action during that period, although the first player of course takes priority with players clockwise then being able to choose whether to take an action or pass.

The example I'm thinking of is if a challenge is made, attackers and defenders have been declared. the Lannister player is then well within their rights to play and resolve I'm You Writ Small (subject to save/cancels) before the winner of the challenge is determined. That's right isn't it?

3. An instance arose where Ser Jacelyn Bywater (with his immunity to character abilities) was given Gutter Rat's Cunning and therefore obtained stealth. To confirm, if Ser Jacelyn was declared as an attacker, could he still use his stealth to prevent Hodor being declared as a defender, ignoring Hodor's card text (which prevents his being bypassed by stealth) on the basis of Jacelyn's immunity?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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Helmut Hohberger
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Rompa wrote:


1. Re Nymeria, I just wanted to check that the +1 strength and stealth only resolves if Nymeria is knelt to save Arya, i.e. Arya does not gain this effect upon Nymeria being attached to her. Also, when Nymeria is stood during the standing phase, does Arya lose stealth and +1 strength? If she doesn't, is the strength modifier cumulative, i.e. if Arya is saved by Nymeria five times, she becomes a 7 strength powerhouse?


Nonono, major misunderstanding here, although I see where it came from.
The thing is this: There are two different effects on Nymeria, which are independent of each other.

Arya gets +1 STR and Stealth as soon as and as long as Nymeria is attached to her. The Save Response of Nymeria has nothing to do with it. Both effects are in their own paragraph, which shows us they're two distinct, unrelated effects. It would have been clearer if they had printed the constant effect above the Response, though.

Rompa wrote:

2. Where the Framework Action Window refers to "player actions", I presume that any player can take an action during that period, although the first player of course takes priority with players clockwise then being able to choose whether to take an action or pass.

The example I'm thinking of is if a challenge is made, attackers and defenders have been declared. the Lannister player is then well within their rights to play and resolve I'm You Writ Small (subject to save/cancels) before the winner of the challenge is determined. That's right isn't it?

That's right. Any effects that are preceded by boldfaced Any Phase: or [Phase]: text are player actions. Marshalling a card in the Marshalling phase is a player action, too.

Rompa wrote:
3. An instance arose where Ser Jacelyn Bywater (with his immunity to character abilities) was given Gutter Rat's Cunning and therefore obtained stealth. To confirm, if Ser Jacelyn was declared as an attacker, could he still use his stealth to prevent Hodor being declared as a defender, ignoring Hodor's card text (which prevents his being bypassed by stealth) on the basis of Jacelyn's immunity?


No, he can't, because Jacelyn is not the target of Hodor's effect. Immunity only protects from effects that work directly on the character in question. In the Core Set, character abilities that Jacelyn would be immune against include Catelyn Stark, Arya Stark, Robb Stark, Cersei Lannister, Renly's Courtier, Drogon, Shae etc. etc.

Note that only the character itself is immune; effects that originate from a character can still be cancelled, and the immune character's duplicates and attachments and any power or gold tokens on him can still be hit by effects. For example, if your opponent wanted to discard Jacelyn's Gutter Rat's Cunning with Dany's Handmaiden, they could do that.

BTW, have you seen the FAQ for the game? It's an indispensable, if at first somewhat daunting, document. You can read up on immunities there, on page 8/9. It is available [geekurl=http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=10&esem=4]here[/geekurl].
 
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Tom Williamson
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Helmut,

1. Thank you for the clarification re Nymeria. I think that it was a big mistake placing the paragraphs in that order, but the way that the card operates makes a lot more sense as a result.

2. All understood re actions. I just wanted to make doubly sure that within the FAW, "player actions" meant everybody and not just the active players. You've confirmed that.

3. I have got the FAQ and read through it once; however, 24 pages is a little too much to take it all in at once. As you've said yourself, it is daunting! I will keep going through it every couple of weeks until it starts to sink in a bit more.

Now that you mention the target element of immunity that definitely rings a bell.
 
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Helmut Hohberger
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Wow, thanks a bunch for the GG! Didn't expect that. Much appreciated, though.

Rompa wrote:

2. All understood re actions. I just wanted to make doubly sure that within the FAW, "player actions" meant everybody and not just the active players. You've confirmed that.


I think there's still a slight misunderstanding here. Look at the Flowcharts in the FAQ. You see that in each phase, there's both Framework Action Windows and Player Action Windows. There is *never* a PAW *inside* a FAW. During a FAW, players can never trigger Player Actions. You always resolve a FAW completely. That means, for example, that you can't trigger player actions between the declaring of Stealth targets and the declaring of Defenders (because those two things happen within the same FAW).

Another example: You can trigger Player Actions in the plot phase before plots are chosen. You can't trigger Player Actions after plots are chosen, but before they are revealed, though (except if Dragonstone port is in play, which has a unique effect of "interrupting" a FAW, but let's disregard that for the moment). You can't trigger player actions after plots are revealed, but before their effects resolve, either (although sometimes you will wish to, believe me).

What you can do inside a FAW is trigger Responses, if applicable, but never Player Actions.

Inside every PAW, all players have the chance to trigger Player Actions, starting with the First Player and going clockwise around the table. The Player Action Window closes after all players have consecutively passed on actions. The one semi-exception here is that, during Marshalling, only the Active Player can perform Actions with a gold cost (marshal cards, mostly).

But technically, even in Marshalling, you opponent has the chance to trigger an action after every one of your actions.

For example, like this:
Player A marshals Summer Sea
Player B has the option to trigger an action
Player A discards Summer Sea to reduce the cost of his next HS or HB character by 2
Player B has the option to trigger an action
Player A kneels Northern Fiefdoms to reduce cost of his next HS character further
Player B has the option to trigger an action
Player A marshals a character at reduced cost

Now, in practice, Player A will just perform those four actions back to back, but technically, Player B has the option to trigger actions at the designated points.


Rompa wrote:
3. I have got the FAQ and read through it once; however, 24 pages is a little too much to take it all in at once. As you've said yourself, it is daunting! I will keep going through it every couple of weeks until it starts to sink in a bit more.


Yeah, don't worry. You don't need to know this stuff by heart from the get-go. It'll grow on you. In my experience, 90% of questions that come up can be answered directly from the rulebook and the FAQ. It's just that those answers can be pretty hard to find for the uninitiated eye.

Here's the course of action I recommend next time questions come up (and they will):
1) Try to figure it out from the FAQ.
2) If you don't find an answer, or if you're still unsure, try to search for an answer on these boards and on the Rules board over at the FFG forums.
3) If you're still unsure, ask either here or there.

Now, I don't recommend searching yourself before posting because we don't want to answer questions. Because we do. It's just that you'll learn a lot reading old rules threads on the forums.

If you can't figure something out by yourself, never hesitate to ask. People both here and over on FFG are always glad to help a newbie out and will patiently answer all questions, even those that come up regularly.
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Tom Williamson
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No worries - GG's gone to a good home. Just means one less microbadge for me

No misunderstanding now re FAW and PAWs - my terminology was just completely skewiff (I meant the flowcharts when referred to FAW). The clarification is very much appreciated nonetheless. Having gone over the flowcharts again during my lunch break, it all makes sense... I think.

Understood too re any future queries. I will continue to try and resolve with the FAQ first but I just know that I will always have that nagging doubt that I've done it wrong, which proved the case with Jacelyn's immunity!
 
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