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Subject: Hive - how to DIY one? rss

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Sam Mercer
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Heya guys,

Never made a DIY game before, and figured that Hive would be a nice place to start.

Other than Priting and playing on paper cutouts, how can I get a really high quality feel of the actual pieces? Marble? Hex counters? MDF?

Any ideas?


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Steve S
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Hexes are a total p.i.t.a.... see other recent threads regarding this.

However if you go this route, you might want to take note that the first edition was actually wood.
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Sam Mercer
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Thanks Steve! You will have to bear with me thogh, what does P.i.t.a mean?

And do you mean hexes as in Cardboard hexes? Surely something a little more 3D would be better?

Wood ey? So just find some 2 by 4, cut it up and engrave in the insects? Sounds fun! Softwood or hardwood?

sam
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Steve S
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Cogentesque wrote:
Thanks Steve! You will have to bear with me thogh, what does P.i.t.a mean?

And do you mean hexes as in Cardboard hexes? Surely something a little more 3D would be better?

Wood ey? So just find some 2 by 4, cut it up and engrave in the insects? Sounds fun! Softwood or hardwood?

sam


PITA = Pain In The Arse.

And pretty much anything hex-shaped seems to be a challenge to make, actually, at least for small hexes.

...engraving or woodburning would be cool though - although the original game was just stickers. In fact IIRC there's a "print and play" sort of version of hex pieces for download on the game's page that could probably be printed onto a sticker sheet and then applied to the hex pieces if you wanted to go an easier route.
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oi xio
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I printed one of the hive versions in the files section (or one of the images, I do not remember exactly) and laminated it. Then I cut the hexes out and glued them onto a piece of PVC flooring (is that the correct translation?). Then I cut the hexes out again (both with a cutter knife).

The resulting hexes are not perfect even but regularly enough to play with them without noticing the differences. The pieces are thick enough to grab them easily but also very light so that the whole game does not weight to much.

I even reduced the size of one copy so that all hexes fit into one little tin (Altoids size). I have it always in my backpack.

I hope I will find some time soon to take some pictures and upload them.
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Matt Green
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Cogentesque wrote:
Sounds fun! Softwood or hardwood?


Much as it seems that I'm stalking you Sam, I'm really not. If you would just stop posting interesting threads, I'll leave you alone.

First off: softwood or hardwood doesn't matter- it's a misnomer, some hardwoods are softer than softwoods. Softwood is cheaper, usually. But, my professional standards aside, that is by-the-by.

What you want is ceramics:

http://www.mosaictileshop.co.uk/bathroom/toto/639/matt-white...

http://www.mosaictileshop.co.uk/kitchen/honeycomb/103/matt-b...

They are 1" marble-like ceramic tiles fixed to a nylon mesh. They pull off pretty easily from the glue. Paint on some invertebrates and you are done (better make sure they are physiologically accurate, else I'll hunt you down). I saw them the other weekend whilst in B&Q.

I have to say this though: I met John Yianni years ago at a Con and he was the nicest guy ever. A real Pro and a great game designer. Make it, like it- but then buy it dude. He's a UK indie Games designer. cool

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Paul Nowak
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Jake Staines
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mgreen02 wrote:

First off: softwood or hardwood doesn't matter- it's a misnomer, some hardwoods are softer than softwoods. Softwood is cheaper, usually. But, my professional standards aside, that is by-the-by.


For what it's worth: the classic example of "some hardwoods are softer than softwoods" is balsa, which is technically a hardwood.

There are some hardwoods which are very suitable for making game pieces out of, and not very many softwoods. The problem is that the ones which are best are also the ones that fine furniture makers want, and thus it's the stuff which is most expensive! You should be able to get a nice game piece out of ash or maple, though; I know the former is cheap enough in the UK, and I gather the latter is cheaper in the US than it is here.

("Any old 2x4" in the UK at least generally means "the crappy end of softwood", and definitely not good for game pieces.)

Having said that, if you don't have access to power tools like a tablesaw or router table, I wouldn't try making small hexes out of wood - without being very good with hand tools you just won't get the accuracy without putting far more effort into it than the task deserves. But if you do, and you know how to use them, I'd argue that it probably makes a nicer-to-handle set than ceramic tiles would.
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Melody
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You could always use those large hex nuts you find at the hardware store, I think I've seen one set posted on the geek done that way. You could use wood filler, spackle, or paper mache to fill in the hole. Then all you would have to do is put the stickers on. If you wanted to go fancier you could paint them. I had planned to do it this way for awhile but now I'm going resin.
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Coen Velden
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RDOXX.com offers thick wooden hexes
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Bichatse wrote:
Having said that, if you don't have access to power tools like a tablesaw or router table, I wouldn't try making small hexes out of wood - without being very good with hand tools you just won't get the accuracy without putting far more effort into it than the task deserves. But if you do, and you know how to use them, I'd argue that it probably makes a nicer-to-handle set than ceramic tiles would.

A router table to do hexes? Hm.

I have had very good success making 12mm wooden hex tiles using only my scrollsaw and my cheap beltsander.

Just print the hexes on sticker paper with thin lines, stick that to the wood you will be using. Then cut them out with the scrollsaw but be careful to leave about 0,5mm surplus on every side. Put the sawed tiles to the beltsander and sand down each edge there until you are exactly on the line of the print. It doesn't get much exacter than that.

Before going that route, I really tried a lot with the table saw. Wasn't worth the effort, they were never exact enough.

These tiles were made using that technique:

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tom franklin
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sunshiny wrote:
You could always use those large hex nuts you find at the hardware store, I think I've seen one set posted on the geek done that way. You could use wood filler, spackle, or paper mache to fill in the hole. Then all you would have to do is put the stickers on. If you wanted to go fancier you could paint them. I had planned to do it this way for awhile but now I'm going resin.


I considered doing this and even went so far as to purchase a bag of larger sized hex nuts.

The only problem? They're so danged heavy, I couldn't see ever carrying them around.
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David Boeren
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Go to a thrift store, find a cheap game with hexes in it. Turn them over and draw pictures of bugs. Badda-bing, you're done.

Stores with stuff for kids may have "toy" nuts & bolts made of plastic similar to these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D86NN6/ref=asc_df_B001D86NN6186...
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Sam Mercer
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mgreen02 wrote:
Great links about ceramics - also admission of stalking

Dude...you gotta stop man. EIther stop the stalking OR come down to Southampton and let me buy you a drink - what's your flavor? Awesome link btw, gna take a good look at that (maybe worth it just to buy the darned thing for spares!)
Ahh yes I know what you mean man, rest assured one copy has ALREADY BEEN PURCHASED to give to a friend who doesnt know about boardgames but likes chess as a birthday present - I figured that it would be a really nice game to make a sexeh version of - also: UK DESIGNER POWER! *fist*
-What cons you go to man? (pm!)

oixio wrote:
Nice post about PVC flooring

Yes that's a great translation and makes perfect sense, make sure you post some pics in this thread if you can man!

Bichatse wrote:
Wood handles better than ceramic but you need pro skillz

Kickass- thanks Jake , tx for hard/softwood example too!

Coenst wrote:
LINK TO EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED

Woop - there it is! - I would personally still like to "make" everything - but thats a great link to know!

wolfzell wrote:
Great advice and a sexy picture

Heya man, if my tiles look anything as keen-edged as yours: I will be one gorramn happy customer!


An Awesome Email

I have just spoken to my awesome friend who is a Luthier (makes guitars outta wood!) and .... he is amazing. Anyway he just said
"Ebony for black and something hot like Figured Box Elder Burl for the lighter pieces. I have a decent block left from my knife making days which might be enough! Inlays, we can dremel and infill with Ebony guitar makers filler and some light filler for the Elder, sand flush and oil. As for shell inlay, I have a friend Mike who can make you any shell inlay from blue print designs"

.... :O ... this ... might ... be ... awesome...
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Melody
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fivecats wrote:
sunshiny wrote:
You could always use those large hex nuts you find at the hardware store, I think I've seen one set posted on the geek done that way. You could use wood filler, spackle, or paper mache to fill in the hole. Then all you would have to do is put the stickers on. If you wanted to go fancier you could paint them. I had planned to do it this way for awhile but now I'm going resin.


I considered doing this and even went so far as to purchase a bag of larger sized hex nuts.

The only problem? They're so danged heavy, I couldn't see ever carrying them around.


Very true. I like the idea of the weight to keep the hexes from moving around though. I think you would also have to glue felt to the bottom to keep them from scratching the playing surface as well. Those are some of the reasons I scrapped the idea for myself. I'm making a resin set with embedded wire/other stuff bugs for my daughter for her birthday. They will still have some weight but not too much.
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tom franklin
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sunshiny wrote:
I'm making a resin set with embedded wire/other stuff bugs for my daughter for her birthday. They will still have some weight but not too much.


Oooh. Photos, please!
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Melody
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Sure, when I'm done. I'm still in the planning stage. I'm experimenting in resin colors & effects at the moment. I've only made a couple of bugs as yet.
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Cogentesque wrote:
Thanks Steve! You will have to bear with me thogh, what does P.i.t.a mean?

And do you mean hexes as in Cardboard hexes? Surely something a little more 3D would be better?

Wood ey? So just find some 2 by 4, cut it up and engrave in the insects? Sounds fun! Softwood or hardwood?

sam


If you want 3D I'd consider some sort of clay. Sculpey or magic sculpt would probably both work well. Otherwise if you just want to decorate flat wood hexes you can always buy the laser cut if you don't have a scroll saw and belt sander like mentioned above. I'd probably combine the two using magic sculpt on top of wood hexes. I made a catan board that way that turned out great.
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Jake Staines
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wolfzell wrote:

A router table to do hexes? Hm.


I'm thinking of the process for making more than just a couple in an efficient and accurate manner; ripping a length of wood to the right width and height, then using a 30-degree chamfer bit on a router table to cut the four angled 'sides', then slicing salami-like into pieces. With just a table saw, I'd try angling the blade 30 degrees and cutting the same long prism, rather than trying to cut the hexes 'flat'.

Disadvantage: grain runs through short width of the wood, meaning it's not so strong. But unless you're going to make very large and thin hexes it shouldn't be a problem for game pieces.

Advantage: it's dead quick, and still pretty plausible to be accurate.

wolfzell wrote:

I have had very good success making 12mm wooden hex tiles using only my scrollsaw and my cheap beltsander.


I get the impression we're probably thinking of significantly different sizes of tiles! Maybe I'm wrong, but they look 12mm thick, meaning probably about 60mm corner-to-corner? It's an accurate method, but it's more effort than I'd want to expend per-tile for the kind of smaller tiles I was thinking of using a router for when there's a quicker way to do it.
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Oh another choice would be to just buy a 1 inch hex wooden dowel and slice it up.
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oi xio
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Cogentesque wrote:

oixio wrote:
Nice post about PVC flooring

Yes that's a great translation and makes perfect sense, make sure you post some pics in this thread if you can man!

Thank you for the confirmation. I have uploaded some pics and will post them when they are approved.
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Jake Staines
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cormor321 wrote:
Oh another choice would be to just buy a 1 inch hex wooden dowel and slice it up.


Do you have a supplier? Because I've literally never seen such a thing on sale, ever, and I've looked.

The only hexagonal rods that I've seen for sale have been metal, or plastic. Neither are quite the same, tactility-wise. Depends what you're after, of course, but I'd certainly be very interested in a UK supplier of hexagonal wooden dowelling.


oixio wrote:

Thank you for the confirmation. I have uploaded some pics and will post them when they are approved.


For what it's worth, if you upload images to your personal gallery (My Geek -> Gallery) you can post them around without having to wait for them to be approved.
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Sorry no idea on UK suppliers.

In the states you can get them from here http://www.chesapeakecrafts.com/hex_dowels.php
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Bichatse wrote:
I'm thinking of the process for making more than just a couple in an efficient and accurate manner; ripping a length of wood to the right width and height, then using a 30-degree chamfer bit on a router table to cut the four angled 'sides', then slicing salami-like into pieces. With just a table saw, I'd try angling the blade 30 degrees and cutting the same long prism, rather than trying to cut the hexes 'flat'.

Good luck with that (seriously!). I keep sticking to my method because I found that I finally will need to work up the edges a little with the sander anyway even if I do the hexes with the table saw. So in the end it wasn't worth the effort for me.

Quote:
I get the impression we're probably thinking of significantly different sizes of tiles! Maybe I'm wrong, but they look 12mm thick, meaning probably about 60mm corner-to-corner? It's an accurate method, but it's more effort than I'd want to expend per-tile for the kind of smaller tiles I was thinking of using a router for when there's a quicker way to do it.

Please try it. I would be very interested to hear about your results.

And regarding the hex sizes, look at these, done in 3mm plywood:



I didn't trim them for exactness with the belt sander, as they didn't need to be perfectly exact. But basically they are done the same way. I still would consider them to be exact enough to use them as Hive pieces.
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