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Subject: Conquest of the Empire or Age of Conan rss

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Jeff White
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I have a few more slots in my game collection, and thinking about picking up one of these two. That and I like to read about comparisons between games.

So, both are multi-player wargames with tons of plastic and go for a song on Amazon with free shipping.

Can they both be played in under 4 hours? Which is still getting time on your table?
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Robert B
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I was just arranging a session of Conquest of the Empire with my buddies when I saw your thread. I can't speak to the other game.

CotE is one of my top rated games. Huge board, tons of plastic minis, specialized dice, cards, chits - a huge box of gamey goodness. It comes with two completely different rule sets - if you want the old-school risk-type game or the "II" rules developed by Martin Wallace: Alliances re-form every year in the game, which makes for an interesting shake-up. You can fight costly wars or sneak around and try to convert influence. There are cards, alliances, battles, all good stuff. For our group, a game typically takes 3.5 to 4 hours.
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Sean Shaw
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I like both, but between the two...Conquest of the Empire by a mile. Choose it everytime. I wouldn't even say it's a close contest.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I think they're both good games, but as the others suggest, Age of Conan isn't really a wargame. If you're looking for possible alternatives to Conquest of the Empire, I would suggest Dust, Ikusa or Warlords of Europe.
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Alan Richbourg
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I have both and have played both many times. Age of Conan plays faster, and I greatly prefer it over CotE, or indeed over the other games Sphere mentions. Note that it seems to be much more popular among people with an interest in the Conan stories and mythology. If that doesn't interest you, it will no doubt lessen your enjoyment of AoC.

Edit: Conquest of Nerath may be better as a game than any of these.
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Robert Washington

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Another "No knowledge of Conan, but big ups on CotE" - I'd expect it should be done in just under 4 hours the 1st time and maybe a bit faster after that - strong epic feel, solidly bedeviling choices, even last place will feel like they forged a decent size chunk of empire - the only reason it's not regularly out is the size (prohibitive for the venue we game in) and a low number of deep dish wargamers in my groups.
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chargetheguns wrote:
I have both and have played both many times. Age of Conan plays faster, and I greatly prefer it over CotE, or indeed over the other games Sphere mentions. Note that it seems to be much more popular among people with an interest in the Conan stories and mythology. If that doesn't interest you, it will no doubt lessen your enjoyment of AoC.

Edit: Conquest of Nerath may be better as a game than any of these.

It's interesting how differently we see things. I would have said it was Conan fans who killed AoC; a great many of them went in with expectations of taking the role of Conan and came away disappointed, rather than judging the game on its own merits. Personally, I find it hard to compare to the other games mentioned, because they have a great deal in common with one another, but little with AoC.

Finally, my one play thus far of Conquest of Nerath left me with a poor impression. Maybe this time it was a matter of my expectations - it appeared to have little scope for strategic play, due to finishing so quickly, and I had hoped for more than just a tactical excercise.
 
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Alan Richbourg
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There's a distinction to be made I guess between the many people who have heard of Conan, or read a story or two, maybe in a comic book, or just seen the (rather awful) movies, vs. those who have read all the originals, know the differences in the various forms of pastiche efforts, have a pretty good understanding of the whole Conan mythos, and maybe have played the old Hyborian War pbem game. AoC was exactly what I was expecting because I'm in the latter group. Most people obviously are not. For me, AoC would have to have been a truly terrible game for me not to like it. My only complaints really are that they got the "history" wrong in a few ways within the game, and that it's sometimes over too soon.

I've only played Nerath once, but it seemed to me to have a lot of elements that feel "modern" and will appeal to younger folks just getting into that type of game.
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Ralph T
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COTE is not that well regarded. Ikusa is better.
 
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chargetheguns wrote:
There's a distinction to be made I guess between the many people who have heard of Conan, or read a story or two, maybe in a comic book, or just seen the (rather awful) movies, vs. those who have read all the originals, know the differences in the various forms of pastiche efforts, have a pretty good understanding of the whole Conan mythos, and maybe have played the old Hyborian War pbem game.

I was reading Conan (and King Kull, Solomon Kane, and the rest of Howard's work) before most of the movie and comic book fans were born, and I'm guessing you could say the same. The Schwarzenegger movies were sad, but I can't say that surprised me. I'm expecting no better from the upcoming John Carter of Mars.
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Robert Washington

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ralpher wrote:
COTE is not that well regarded. Ikusa is better.


IDK that an average rating of 6.9 is all that poorly regarded, and it's certainly not lacking for fans here; IKUSA's neat, but it's also player elimination and does not have as much depth.
 
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Outkast wrote:
IDK that an average rating of 6.9 is all that poorly regarded, and it's certainly not lacking for fans here; IKUSA's neat, but it's also player elimination and does not have as much depth.

For obvious reasons, player elimination is not generally regarded as a problem in wargames. It certainly exists in the classic rules for COTE.
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Robert Washington

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Sphere wrote:

For obvious reasons, player elimination is not generally regarded as a problem in wargames.


And just as obviously, that's actually a matter of personal opinion/taste - with so many options for no player elimination wargames these days, it's certainly a drawback in modern wargaming, and my actual point was that that aspect makes CotE a better choice for anyone who does see player elimination as an issue, wargame or otherwise, and therefore worth noting as part of a recommendation.
 
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Outkast wrote:
And just as obviously, that's actually a matter of personal opinion/taste - with so many options for no player elimination wargames these days, it's certainly a drawback in modern wargaming, and my actual point was that that aspect makes CotE a better choice for anyone who does see player elimination as an issue, wargame or otherwise, and therefore worth noting as part of a recommendation.

So many options for non-elimination wargames? Sounds to me like your idea of a modern wargame is some kind of Eurogame hybrid. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It doesn't alter the fact that destroying your enemy is a common element in warfare, and a great many wargames - including recently published ones - allow player elimination.
 
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Robert Washington

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Sphere wrote:
Outkast wrote:
And just as obviously, that's actually a matter of personal opinion/taste - with so many options for no player elimination wargames these days, it's certainly a drawback in modern wargaming, and my actual point was that that aspect makes CotE a better choice for anyone who does see player elimination as an issue, wargame or otherwise, and therefore worth noting as part of a recommendation.

So many options for non-elimination wargames? Sounds to me like your idea of a modern wargame is some kind of Eurogame hybrid. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It doesn't alter the fact that destroying your enemy is a common element in warfare, and a great many wargames - including recently published ones - allow player elimination.


No, my idea of a modern wargame is 'any wargame originally published in the past 10 years'.

Sounds like your idea of a 'wargame' period is different from mine, which is fine - I've been having that argument since the other side was trying to convince me since it wasn't a real wargame unless it was "published by SPI", as some would say oh so imperiously - but that doesn't alter the fact that player elimination is fairly considered to be an issue with all forms of gaming by many nowadays, and as some of us don't have any issues with availing ourselves of the benefits of living in the 21st century, it can be helpful to know if a game will allow us to do that or not.
 
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Outkast wrote:
No, my idea of a modern wargame is 'any wargame originally published in the past 10 years'.

Sounds like your idea of a 'wargame' period is different from mine, which is fine - I've been having that argument since the other side was trying to convince me since it wasn't a real wargame unless it was "published by SPI", as some would say oh so imperiously - but that doesn't alter the fact that player elimination is fairly considered to be an issue with all forms of gaming by many nowadays, and as some of us don't have any issues with availing ourselves of the benefits of living in the 21st century, it can be helpful to know if a game will allow us to do that or not.

I don't understand all the attitude. Nobody mentioned SPI games in this thread - you brought that up. The O.P. specified multi-player wargames, and the games he mentioned made it clear we're talking about the plastic army variety, and SPI has nothing to do with that.

The 21st century B.S. is simply ill informed. A great many games with player elimination have been published in the last 10 years. Some are re-prints of older designs - Ikusa is a good example. The publisher clearly thinks there is a current demand for a good player elimination game. Any idea how many versions of Risk have been published in the last 10 years? How about all the recent Axis and Allies designs? Somebody is buying them.

It isn't all remakes of legacy systems, either. Warlords of Europe is a new design, published in 2010. It features player elimination. You don't just see it in army games, either: King of Tokyo came out last year, is very popular, and has player elimination as its goal. I've been enjoying Monsterpocalypse lately. 2008 design. Guess how you win?

Your personal preference doesn't dictate what is modern or acceptable. Telling us what you like, and why, is fine, but there's no need to crap all over suggestions from others just because a game has a mechanic you don't like.
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Robert Washington

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Sphere wrote:


The 21st century B.S. is simply ill informed. A great many games with player elimination have been published in the last 10 years. Some are re-prints of older designs - Ikusa is a good example. The publisher clearly thinks there is a current demand for a good player elimination game. Any idea how many versions of Risk have been published in the last 10 years? How about all the recent Axis and Allies designs? Somebody is buying them.

It isn't all remakes of legacy systems, either. Warlords of Europe is a new design, published in 2010. It features player elimination. You don't just see it in army games, either: King of Tokyo came out last year, is very popular, and has player elimination as its goal. I've been enjoying Monsterpocalypse lately. 2008 design. Guess how you win?

Your personal preference doesn't dictate what is modern or acceptable. Telling us what you like, and why, is fine, but there's no need to crap all over suggestions from others just because a game has a mechanic you don't like.


You can interpret what I said any way you wish and add whatever attitude you please, but in the end, all I'm referring to is the idea that in the past 10 years player elimination in wargames has moved from a necessity to an option, like any other, and worth considering - anything else you or anyone else takes away from that is on them/you.

And flipping the script won't work either - you introduced yourself by "crapping all over" a game suggested by several people here, including the original poster - if someone pointing out your off-topic recommendation's flaws equals some kind of assault to you, fine, and if someone not taking the discussion seriously enough to stick entirely to Parlimentary Forensic Protocol and point out the large number of non-player elimination wargames in the past decade in a less than serious manner, okay, but for someone who offers vague but serious critiques with little to no exposition and began their contributions with by off-handedly dismissing the original poster's chosen options, you come across a little overly dramatic.
 
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Outkast wrote:
... you introduced yourself by "crapping all over" a game suggested by several people here, including the original poster...

Here's what I said:

"I think they're both good games, but as the others suggest, Age of Conan isn't really a wargame. If you're looking for possible alternatives to Conquest of the Empire, I would suggest Dust, Ikusa or Warlords of Europe."

Saying "they're both good games" is not crapping all over anything, and the poster asked for opinions. I wasn't the first to suggest that AoC is not a wargame.

Outkast wrote:
if someone pointing out your off-topic recommendation's flaws equals some kind of assault to you, fine...

You're saying the games I mentioned are off-topic when the O.P. asked about multi-player wargames? Are you serious?
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Robert, "A hint to the wise is truly sufficient"

So with that said, don't mess with Sphere. Nothing but pain waiting there, son. Sphere is like a Kung Fu master. He will teach you much about gaming, life, and the mysteries of Kung Fu, but don't cross him. He is still the master.

Remember: a hint to the wise ...

Now, back to the OP: Barteus introduced me to CotE last weekend and I very much enjoyed it. It's light, but has a lot of fun in it.
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A GG for giving me a good laugh, Sho Nuff.
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Sphere wrote:
I was reading Conan (and King Kull, Solomon Kane, and the rest of Howard's work) before most of the movie and comic book fans were born, and I'm guessing you could say the same. The Schwarzenegger movies were sad, but I can't say that surprised me. I'm expecting no better from the upcoming John Carter of Mars.


In this case you will be very pleasantly surprised when you watch it.
 
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Robert Washington

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airjudden wrote:
Robert, "A hint to the wise is truly sufficient"

So with that said, don't mess with Sphere. Nothing but pain waiting there, son. Sphere is like a Kung Fu master.



I have to presume you mean the one in KUNG POW: ENTER THE FIST, right?

airjudden wrote:

He will teach you much about gaming, life, and the mysteries of Kung Fu, but don't cross him. He is still the master.


I don't need any lessons on how to do all of those things badly, so I don't see him teaching me anything but how people with too much free time get by.

airjudden wrote:

Remember: a hint to the wise ...



Well then here's a hint for you: Never risk getting on my nerves ever again.

Let's see how wise you are, Jack...
 
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Robert Washington

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Sphere wrote:

You're saying the games I mentioned are off-topic when the O.P. asked about multi-player wargames? Are you serious?


Now here's where you go off the rails: the O.P said nothing about multiplayer wargames as a group, but rather, specifically ID'd 2 particular games and initiated a conversation about those.

So yes - in a conversation about 2 specific games, bringing in a totally different game is indeed validly considered "off-topic", and I do indeed state that with all due seriousness - not much, but some.

I'd say "Nice try" or at least " I see now what what's-his-face was talking about", but either of those that would be lies...
 
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Outkast wrote:
Sphere wrote:

You're saying the games I mentioned are off-topic when the O.P. asked about multi-player wargames? Are you serious?


Now here's where you go off the rails: the O.P said nothing about multiplayer wargames as a group, but rather, specifically ID'd 2 particular games and initiated a conversation about those.

And we all know that a conversation is a very formal thing that can't evolve by referencing anything similar, don't we? I'd forgotten about this thread weeks ago - stewing over stuff like that must be awfully stressful for you.
 
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Sphere wrote:
Outkast wrote:
Sphere wrote:

You're saying the games I mentioned are off-topic when the O.P. asked about multi-player wargames? Are you serious?


Now here's where you go off the rails: the O.P said nothing about multiplayer wargames as a group, but rather, specifically ID'd 2 particular games and initiated a conversation about those.

And we all know that a conversation is a very formal thing that can't evolve by referencing anything similar, don't we? I'd forgotten about this thread weeks ago - stewing over stuff like that must be awfully stressful for you.


Come now, Sphere. Mentioning a multi-player wargame in a thread referencing such and asking for recommendations is clearly a waste of time.
Now, on that same thread, slagging someone for trying to be helpful is perfectly germane.
Do you understand now?
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