Przemek Pro
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Maybe I'm blind or simple can't find it but there is no thread about strategy and ideas for Martell house.

Few details:

Doran Martell's card looks really nice, Red Viper [4] is strong with his 2 swords and 1 fortification extra. Arianne can be useful. Nothing special in the others.

- Position 4 on the Iron Throne track
- Position 3 on the Fiefdoms track
- Position 3 on the King's Court Track


Not so bad, two special orders. Quicker move than Tyrell is a benefit as well.

* 1 ship in Sea of Dorne
* 1 knight and 1 footman in Sunspear
* 1 footman in Salt Shore


It seems pretty obvious to me that in first round we supposed to take Boneway and Yronwood but what next? Starfall and in my opinion Prince Pass looks crucial for further operations.

I hope this start any fruitful discussion. Forgive me any mistakes and shortcomings.
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Seli L
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pchela wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that in first round we supposed to take Boneway and Yronwood but what next?


Storm's End and not next but immediately. It is a mistake to think Storm's End is Baratheon's and I've just seen a Martell thrashed hard for this mistake.

Also, not The Boneway but rather Starfall the first round, The Boneway can wait, as there's nothing that important there.

After that, just form a defensive circle around Sea of Dorne and move wherever it feels sensible (which will be Prince's Pass and The Boneway most probably).
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Douglas Walker
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I played a strategy where I attacked Storm's End. I fought a couple battles with Baratheon, but had to back off. Meanwhile, Tyell (with their amazing house cards) attacked from the west. If Tryell isn't fighting Lannister, Martell shouldn't engage Baratheon. It's hard to fight two people at once, as I found out. Of course, it didn't help that I got placed on the bottom of the King's Court Track the second turn, while Tyell had 3 stars.
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Amin
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Seli_L wrote:
pchela wrote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that in first round we supposed to take Boneway and Yronwood but what next?


Storm's End and not next but immediately. It is a mistake to think Storm's End is Baratheon's and I've just seen a Martell thrashed hard for this mistake.

Also, not The Boneway but rather Starfall the first round, The Boneway can wait, as there's nothing that important there.

After that, just form a defensive circle around Sea of Dorne and move wherever it feels sensible (which will be Prince's Pass and The Boneway most probably).


Agreed. Martell is there to prevent Baratheon from having the easy time they have in the 4-5 player game. The essentially unraidable sea support of Sea of Dorne is crucial.

What I'm curious to hear your views on, in those games where Martell has an early truce with Tyrell, what is a "fair" distribution of Prince's Pass and the Boneway?



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Precious hints guys. It is unlikely that Baratheon will go for a Storms End instead f.e. King's Landing.
So maybe we can hammer out any scheme for first round:

March + 1 -> Knight/Footman takes Storm's End
Support + 1 -> Ship (in Sea of Dorne obviously)
March 0 -> Footman to Starfall

Knight/Footman stay in Sunspear for muster in next turn.

In addition to truce proposition between Martell and Tyrell I have no idea how can they share PP and BW fairly. But truce is definitely best option for first few rounds.
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Simon
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I recently lost a game as Baretheon largley due to there being a strong Dornish presence in Storms End forever threatening me. The Dornish player was a contender in the game until getting shafted by Tyrell.



My basic observation of Martells strategy is this; Expand aggressively or be pended in. Taking storms end was a sharp move by Martell in my game.

Ultimatly if you want to defeat Baratheon you will need either Lanister or one of the northerns to be at his gates, and you probably can't take both Tyrell and Baratheon on at the same time.
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Amin
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Stark will, more often than not, come down that side of the board (via Crackclaw point and/or the sea). Even if they don't come down actively, Stark can often be a useful ally when it comes to naval support or raids.
 
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Josiah Martinoski
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I just won a game last night with Martell. I think that while you need to strike Baratheon hard and early, you need to strike when you can hit him hard. In my game I let him take Storms End, and he mustered a ship there. I surprised him and took it, and his ship. It only took one turn after that to take Dragonstone and he was finished after that.
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Seli L
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joshsmith80 wrote:
I disagree with the opening moves by all so far with Martell. Turn one I take Saltshore and Yronwood.


Starfall I assume.

joshsmith80 wrote:
turn two I take Prince's Pass if possible then the Boneway in turn 3. Too many people forget how important the Supply Track is early game.


Next to irrelevant, since there are not enough units to really need it?

joshsmith80 wrote:
Only in turn 4 or after will I turn my attention to Storm's End. Josiah's point on being careful when you hit Baratheon is oh sooo important. i often butter them up, strike a cease fire with Tyrell and then strike Baratheon when he is being plagued by Stark, Lannister or both!!!


On turn 4??? There are games that are almost decided by turn 4. I'd love to be the Baratheon that has Storm's End uncontested until turn 4. And a weak Martell (which is what Martell will be, without Storm's End) can forget to have a cease fire with Tyrell that'd actually work - Martell is Tyrell's most obvious target and being weak and way too close just begs for being stepped over.


The point is, Baratheon simply cannot take Storm's End in the first turn if Martell does not allow it. Even if Baratheon neglects Cracklaw Point and focuses everything on Storm's End, Martell can still push Baratheon back and pay for the impudence, although in this case it is probably wiser to let Baratheon waste all effort there and push back only in turn 2. So it is just plain silly to let Baratheon have a free ride at one's own expense.
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I can agree with @Seli L. We can't just leave the Storms End for Baratheon. It should be one of the most important puzzle in our defensive system around the Sea of Dorne.
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well imo storm's end shouldnt even be a question in any game whatsoever.

in all games, martell summons at least one extra ship in sea of dorne and one ship in east summer sea. that will result in 2 things:

1. baratheon cant send his ships south because of the support from sea of dorne. it is just plainly impossible for baratheon to fight naval battles when dorne has support coming from sea of dorne.

2.baratheon has no chance of getting/keeping storm's end because of the support from the ships in sea of dorne. baratheon cant support with his own ships either, because dorne places a raid order on his ship in east summer sea. if baratheon attacks storms end via ship transport and tries to get land support from kingswood, you should then just have 1 footman at the boneway ready to raid.

in any case, the ship support from sea of dorne is just crazy. even sallador is useless because there is no way baratheon can get support for a battle in storms end unless martell plays bad.

So my strat with martell is simple:

just explain to baratheon that storms end is suicide for him because of your ships (u dont have to be a lawyer or a salesman to do this, its just common sense). and voila, u have storms end.
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Magnus Carlsson
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I might be a quite defensive player but my strategy for Martell would be to get the Sea of Dorne "safe". The only threat to Sea of Dorne is the East summer sea so my first move would be to secure that.

I would probably put a March +0 in Salt shore, March +1 in Sea of Dorne to have a way of repulsing Baratheon if he moves his fleet down on his first move. Finally a Consolidate star to muster another ship and a footman in Sunspear. The ship would go into the Sea of Dorne.

The march in Salt shore has some flexibility, it can go the simple way occupying Starfall or it can make a jump and take Storms end. Starfall is up by one barrel and secures it from Tyrell, Storms end will put a thorn in Baratheons side.

When turn two arrives Martell should be in a good position, having secured the Sea of Dorne and having an army ready in Sunspear that can be put into good use!

If a Muster should appear on the Westeros cards I would probably put another ship in Sea of Dorne, upgrade one of the footman in Sunspear to knight and put another footman in Starfall or Storms end.

If you skip Storms end and let Baratheon occupy it, it might be a fun experiment to upgrade a footman to a siege tower, putting some real pressure on him.

Turn two I would try to secure Boneway, Yronwood and Starfall/Storms end.
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M Chen
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Keep in mind that Baratheon can have the last turn if you muster (I agree that your token use is the best possible use of tokens for Martell, though). That being said, be prepared to use Arianne Martell if Baratheon aggresses with his ships to the East Summer Sea. He won't be able to enter and you can muster ships to secure Sea of Dorne.

That being said, if you decide to take Storm's End with your Salt Shore piece, be careful of Baratheon. An aggressive Baratheon can attack Storm's End, use Patchface to then discard Arianne Martell, and then attack your ships as his last move. This would be my Baratheon starting move. If Martell misplays at all, he is toast.
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grimmymail wrote:
I would probably put a March +0 in Salt shore, March +1 in Sea of Dorne to have a way of repulsing Baratheon if he moves his fleet down on his first move. Finally a Consolidate star to muster another ship and a footman in Sunspear. The ship would go into the Sea of Dorne.

Right. I thought that is a common standard..? The CP* gives you the military advantage over Tyrell (who lacks special orders) and opens up the possibility of an all out attack on Baratheon or the defense against an all out attack by Baratheon.

grimmymail wrote:
The march in Salt shore has some flexibility (...). Starfall is up by one barrel and secures it from Tyrell, Storms end will put a thorn in Baratheons side.


Starfall secures nothing. Tyrell actually has an easy time attacking you if you go there. Either with a FM + Mace (-> FM dead) or with knight and FM + Garlan (-> FM dead). Knight + Loras could even take Starfall and Yronwood. Or follow up and possibly use QoT to cancel your CP* (and take Yronwood if you retreated towards it). If he wins a second battle he'll kill your FM ofc. Loras can be countered with Arianne? Right! He knows it too though and might even dare taking Starfall with knight + Randyll Tarly...
Its a story of a dying FM.

Anyways: skip Starfall unless Tyrell is a reliable ally. CP* in Sunspear.

Next you could attack Baratheons ship(s) and take Dragonstone with a Siege engine if you special mustered the SE and a ship and Baratheon fails to go all defensive. Your Ships, led by the Viper, can kill his ship(s) and Baratheon Units in Dragonstone will be destroyed if you win. It is risky obviously and far from "standard". Your opening is flexible however. Evaluate the situation and go all-in if you see fit.

Otherwise you have all the options now: Storms End, Boneway, Starfall (now you can send knights ther via sea, possibly supported from an Yronwood FM), an attack on Tyrell ships... do as thou wilt.

Oh and never forget: Doran is not primarily your gain but his loss. He is a subtle fellow and is best used not in combat but in diplomacy.
Your gain is arguably highest when using him against Tyrell as it makes him weaker in combat. Baratheon on the other hand suffers a greater loss than Tyrell but gets a strength 5 Stannis if you take his Kingdom. It might even be an option to take Baratheons special order instead when fighting him. Or just feeding him to Patchface (when going all in).
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Eddard Stark
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I've noticed, that Martell's don't have any safe source of power tokens. Starks have north, Bara has Kingswood and King's Landing, Tyrell Arbor and the Dornish Marshes and Greyjoys and Lannisters have many fat provinces that give them a lot of power tokens in westeros phase.

Martell can take Boneway and Prince's Pass, but it's very raidable. There's a crown in Sunspear, but it's the only Stronghold in Dorne, so you usually put CP* there and muster. The only way for Martell's to gain power tokens are raids and that's quite unreliable source of income.

That's why Martell's house cards are so powerful I think. To regain the balance.
 
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Lachey Mac
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I agree, I played a game with Martell recently and found myself struggling to survive when Baratheon attacked me with ships, but even without that I doubt I would have easily gained power tokens. I think well thought-out strategies regarding the two support "hubs" for Martell are crucial - Sea of Dorne and Yronwood - especially the second one.

You can put a ship in the port at Sunspear to get a CP every turn, but the frontiers of your empire are really raidable and this tended to take my CP when I played. Timing the use of CP to coincide with Tyrell's moments of fear or movement against Baratheon is crucial to avoid getting raided. Once you have Prince's Pass, East Summer Sea, Starfall and Storm's End tied up, you're finally a force to be seriously reckoned with, and you should be able to get all these regions, but you can't mess up, because without that perimeter you're bacon.

Still not sure where to advance to after you have that perimeter. I suppose stomping Baratheon's base would be a safe bet but both Tyrell and Baratheon seem like unlikely wars to win.
I suppose you have to choose your target based upon who is being hurt the most out of Tyrell/Baratheon. You'll probably need the help of Stark or Lannister to take either out (one reason I support making Lannister less underpowered...)
 
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John Mulqueen
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I agree with the idea of mustering into the port of Sunspear so you can cp there. You'll always be a bit behind on powertokens there, just kind of the way it is.

As for how to expand, I find it's best to try and be peaceful with both Tyrell and Baratheon and play very defensively. Neither one of them wants to be the first to attack, and if either one does (and you've already now burned Doran and or Arianne) there is much less of a deterrent for the other to follow up. Essentially you should establish your main area and hang out and wait for bara or tyrell to overextend, drop too many good cards or until a good moment comes to coordinate an attack bara with stark (for example when a web of lies comes up) or tyrell (maybe if gj has some aggressive southward sea ambitions).

I think it should be noted that the longer the game goes without seeing a clash of kings, the less Doran becomes a deterrent against attacks. Although most other players don't realize this in my experience, it's still true, and we are talking about optimal strategy here, right? My reasoning for this is that essentially everyone can and should be beating you on power farming. If 3 turns have gone by and there is no COK, getting Doran to the face isn't so bad. 1) If I as Tyrell or Bara expect Doran, I'll likely throw out a sword and get a casualty and 2) Since I've been powerfarming (more than martell) and a COK is likely "Due", dropping down an influence track isn't such a big deal since I can likely expect to climb the ranks again if need be soon. Counter this with your standing immediately after a COK, when Tyrell just went all out to finally get some star power, or Bara climbed the fiefdom track, they'll be more skiddish about losing their hard earned station.

Something to keep in mind as Martell
 
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Shezmaine
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I'm really surprised that people rate Martell cards as 'powerful.' As I see it, there are only 3 good cards: Doran, the Red Viper, and Arianne, and 2 of them are only good for losing. The rest are just making up numbers, and you end up throwing them at conflicts when you think you can afford to lose them, hoping to throw them away so you can use your good 3 cards again. Tyrell seems to be in the same boat except that all 3 of their 3 good cards are for winning with, where Baratheon, Stark and Greyjoy just don't have the same problem at all (Stark Bolton cycle wins while all greyjoy and almost all Baratheon cards are awesome) , and Lannister looks somewhere in between.

What's so great about the Martell cards?
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Yoshihiro YoshiB
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Good day fellow Westerosi,

I see a lot of person talking about the best opening move but I believe the opening move should depend on the following points:

1. Your alliance or pact with an other player (This should really determine where you should march)
2. The Westeros Card. (This is random so you need to bet which card will be revealed first)
3. Your long term plan. (There is never only one plan better an other)

With that in mind there are definitely some better situations than others that you should definitely try to obtain:

I believe the best alliance is with Tyrell so you can both focus on one main enemy Baratheon for Martell and Lannister for Tyrell. How ever this will depend on the players hence if you can't get an alliance with Tyrell, then you should try Baratheon. It is always better to have an alliance or a pact with a neighbor.
(Note: That you need to know the player to make an alliance, you should never trust someone unless he proved his word in many games / If you don't know the player make a pact with clear rules and always be careful)

In case you're able to make peace with Tyrell be aggressive against Baratheon and DO NOT GIVE HIM THE EAST SUMMER SEA.
I would play:
Sea of Dorne: March +1
=> To East Summer Sea
Salt Shore: March +0
=> To Storm's End (It is rare that Baratheon takes Storm's End early as he prefers to take King's Landing quickly)
Sun Spear: Consolidate Power*
=> Muster 2 Ships in Sea of Dorne
It is better to use the Sea of Dorne for Support this will help you maintain the East Summer Sea (and Storm's End). If you put all you ships in the East Summer Sea you can lose against Baratheon anytime because of "Salladhor Saan"

All the moves afterward should only depend on how the others opened.
But if you are against Baratheon try to take Shipbreaker's bay and then Blackwater Bay... (Always beware of Salladhor Saan) Once this is achieved it will be easier to defeat him.

Also Martell can use the "Doran Martell" to deter someone from attacking you. This is actually the only "really good" card Martell has... (I mean compare to Greyjoy or Lannister)

The main difficulty as long as you have one ally with Martell is collecting influence point. (The Boneway or Prince's Pass can easily be raided.

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Kaloyan Zlatkov
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shezmaine wrote:
I'm really surprised that people rate Martell cards as 'powerful.' As I see it, there are only 3 good cards: Doran, the Red Viper, and Arianne, and 2 of them are only good for losing. The rest are just making up numbers, and you end up throwing them at conflicts when you think you can afford to lose them, hoping to throw them away so you can use your good 3 cards again. Tyrell seems to be in the same boat except that all 3 of their 3 good cards are for winning with, where Baratheon, Stark and Greyjoy just don't have the same problem at all (Stark Bolton cycle wins while all greyjoy and almost all Baratheon cards are awesome) , and Lannister looks somewhere in between.

What's so great about the Martell cards?


Last night I played with Martell and faced the same situation. I played the Red Viper, Arianne and Doran and was like seeking for any battles just to recycle my deck. Quite hard to convince my allies, because the rest of the cards have a lot of swords... So yes, I agree that Martell has generally weaker cards, but nevertheless you are still in a good position for the win. Doran Martel is just one card and when you play it, you are in danger. But when you have it in your deck - it is a great psychological power tool against your rivals. Baratheon will choose to attack Stark instead of you just because of Doran. He will want you as an ally to keep his back against Tyrell. And all this just because of Doran. If he chooses an alliance with Stark he knows that an alliance between you and Tyrell will devastate him. So he will rather choose to attack Stark instead.

And the favorite experience to any Tyrell is to waste his hard gathered power tokens for some stars and in the same turn to be punished by uncle Doran

So last night was very strange: I ended up with my 4 natural castles + Lannisport, Riverrun and Seaguard.. I had seen other Martell wins and all of them are with max ships and strange distant attacks. I had also seen a Martell, who aimed at such victory over Greyjoy, making pact with me (Bara) fighting Stark and Tyrell fighting Lannsiter. Both me and Tyrell backstabbed him and took everything from him in one turn (most of his army was in Pyke)

IMO Martell is very entertaining house to play with - like Tyrell they seem like "the weak neighbors from the south" but both of them give great opportunity for fun and surprise action. Actually I had seen victory by every house but Greyjoy, who are just too powerful and provoke other player's envy too early
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Robert Woodham
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A decent Baratheon should always be going for King's Landing and then the Eyrie and Fingers for the barrels and overall superior positioning. It's just too hard for him to push inland and south.
 
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Mircea Vasiu
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I usually start like this:
1) Mustering in Sunspear ( 1 ship in the East Summer Sea and 1 footmen)
2) March +1 on Sea of Dorne( in chase Baratheon tries to get in the East Summer Sea from the first round )
3) march +0 from Salt Shore to Starfall or Ironwood ( also i leave a power token in Salt Shore)

The opportune moment to attack baratheon is when a westeros card that says "no support orders can be played".
Other than that in my opinion it is for the best to join forces with Baratheon and attack Tyrell (he wont know what hit him).
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Svante Hedström
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capulapeste wrote:
I usually start like this:
1) Mustering in Sunspear ( 1 ship in the East Summer Sea and 1 footmen)
2) March +1 on Sea of Dorne( in chase Baratheon tries to get in the East Summer Sea from the first round )
3) march +0 from Salt Shore to Starfall or Ironwood ( also i leave a power token in Salt Shore)

The opportune moment to attack baratheon is when a westeros card that says "no support orders can be played".
Other than that in my opinion it is for the best to join forces with Baratheon and attack Tyrell (he wont know what hit him).


I agree to this opening. If no mustering westeros cards hit in the first few rounds, Martell can really hurt Tyrell who will be unit starved (this may require some sort of agreement with Baratheon). If you instead of attacking Tyrell want to play safer, the first round CP* is still good to get a nice spreading of units in round 2.
 
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quall james
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Since we are on the subject I will recant my victory last night as martell. To start we had six players, three novices and three masters. As martell I was squished between the other two masters who were controlling tyrell and Baratheon.
First move I used the star consolidate in sunspear and moved my footman into storms end. Tyrell and I agreed to a truce early on as martell and tyrell typically squabble the entire game and neither house gains much. He agreed to move north on Lannister while I moved north on Baratheon. The cost of this truce was allowing tyrell to move a footman into starfall.
In subsequent turns I took yronwood and princes pass while fortifying storms end and the sea outside sunspear. I was engaged in talks with stark and we were going to synchronize an attack on Baratheon, I would have crushed his navy and conquered dragonstone while stark sacked crackclaw point. Unfortunately stark needlessly betrayed me and didn’t play a raid in sea that would have allowed me to strike the Baratheon navy. I could no longer trust stark for any future considerations. I then spoke with Baratheon as it was obvious neither one of us could take the other out. I agreed not to strike him and instead encouraged him to strike out an unsuspecting stark. Which he did.
A few turn later a found myself surrounded by a tyrell host that was besieging the lannisters and a Baratheon campaign that was devastating the north. I knew I had to begin making moves as there were only four turns left. I couldn’t strike anywhere at sea as my navy was outmatched by tyrell and Baratheon. Land was my only option.
I moved a knight into the princes pass where I already had a footman and used those troops to snatch the dornish marches, killing the tyrell footman and losing my footman to the mace tyrell card. I then positioned my siege engine in boneway. I now had a knight and a siege engine surrounding the reach, whilst Baratheon and Lannister also had troops in the area. The next turn I was able to use Baratheon’s support to level the reach, at this point I feel Baratheon had largely written me off as a contender as he was attempting to conquer the north. Tyrell attempted to attack my knight in the dornish marches with a siege engine from oldtown, he overlooked the fact he has zero combat strength and I killed his engine. The next turn I used my siege engine in sunspear and destroyed the tyrell host in starfall. Meanwhile tyrell is also being pushed back by Lannister, and stark is trying to reclaim the homeland. Greyjoy was a non factor this game.
My next move I used my knight to walk into a wide open oldtown. I now had six cities. Lannister and stark pestered Baratheon and brought him down to four cities. Desperately Baratheon launched an attack against me at the reach, but I used my arriane martell card, the final card in my deck, to stop his march. I lost the city but still had five, which was enough to win. Never give up boys.
 
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James Bond
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lordquall wrote:
Since we are on the subject I will recant my victory last night as martell. To start we had six players, three novices and three masters. As martell I was squished between the other two masters who were controlling tyrell and Baratheon.

...
...
...

Tyrell attempted to attack my knight in the dornish marches with a siege engine from oldtown, he overlooked the fact he has zero combat strength and I killed his engine.

...
...
...

Greyjoy was a non factor this game.
My next move I used my knight to walk into a wide open oldtown.

...


Yes, tell him how to play around the noobs, and he will definitely learn something from this

Go here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1157047/martell-early-barath...
 
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