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Subject: Conscription (Empire Card) rss

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Conan Meriadoc
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An idea that might change the balance of the game quite a bit... Untested as yet. Just throwing this idea here for the wolves. Do you think it could be a good idea, or is this concept flawed from the start ?

Add a new card to the empire decks of both sides :

Quote:
Conscription
Empire Card
5 Gold to buy for the English
2 Gold to buy for the French
Effect : Pay one gold to place up to two location cards from your hand in a single siege, as if they were military cards. They count as one strength point each.



Edit : Adding images for the cards
Edit2 : Modified the effect to allow playing two cards.
Edit3 : Added other custom cards



Bateaux (Starting English Card)

Etat-Major (Cost 2, French Card only)
Take all the cards in your reserve back into your hand,
or put any number of cards from your hand into your reserve.

Scouts (English Card Only):
Search your draw deck for an empire card, and put it in your reserve.
Shuffle your draw deck afterwards. This is a free action.
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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That's interesting and certain favors the French at the start. Might encourage the British to settle locations
 
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Matthew Rooks
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Interesting idea indeed. I wonder how it would affect the use of the Governor.
 
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Gavan Brown
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Me rikey
 
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Tom
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Very interesting.

It won't make the official scenarios because of a requirement of a new card but for a community fix this is a good direction - to tie military strenght with settling new locations.

I am now wondering, if only Treefrog could publish, like the designer of Troyes, a few cards such as this (Troyes got 4 bonus cards, so here could be analogical 2 conscription cards and maybe two others) and sell them for few euros. It could completlely change the game for those who want to buy it and those who don't feel the game is broken wouldn't need it.
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Eugene
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In the meantime, there's always sleeving. Barring that, is there a card in each the Empire deck that never, ever is acquired? That one could serve as a proxy Conscription card.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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garygarison wrote:
In the meantime, there's always sleeving. Barring that, is there a card in each the Empire deck that never, ever is acquired?

Several. Bateaux are the obvious candidate. I don't believe anyone buys Ships except in that scenario where every possible military card is poured into a siege of Quebec (has anyone actually got to that point?) and in any case if both players lost it that would make no change. (I'm not suggesting that's the whole list either.)
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Tom
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garygarison wrote:
In the meantime, there's always sleeving. Barring that, is there a card in each the Empire deck that never, ever is acquired? That one could serve as a proxy Conscription card.
True, that's why I suggested it earlier. New cards can be created and even transferred from British deck to French that way (e.g. military cards).

Christopher, do you know maybe if it would be possible to see some bonus cards for AFAoS a la Troyes some time in the future? Or maybe it's certainly impossible? I'm sure there are plenty of people (I'm one of them) who would gladly buy it if it changed the balance somehow. Even from an economic point of view this could easily be cost-effective for Treefrog if 4 cards costed few euros.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Bateaux gets bought enough. I actually had an odd game, as French, where I bought an early-ish ship, not as a last military.

I certainly would pay for fixed/new/replacement cards. Probably not alone. People will complain, but what don't people complain about?
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Conan Meriadoc
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solkan1 wrote:
It won't make the official scenarios because of a requirement of a new card but for a community fix this is a good direction - to tie military strenght with settling new locations.
Thanks. This is really what I was aiming for.

I don't really like the idea of having to commit to either a military strategy or a settling one; I'd prefer the frontier to be more blurry, fluctuating during the game. With this card, your military game doesn't get penalized as much for settling a little more than usual; however, bloating your deck with useless locations is still a bad idea, as you can only use this card once per reshuffle (twice with intendant). It also gives the french an opportunity early game to defend against an aggressive English player, creates another potential use for those fur cards when you don't have a trader, and also gives the English an incentive to settle/keep location cards.

It's a bit early to talk about printing a set of cards to balance the game, based on only one unplaytested card idea, though... Proxies should be enough for now ! Of course, if you try the card, I'd like to get some feedback
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Tim Seitz
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There's no card in either deck that is completely useless. Even the dreaded Bateaux has it's uses. Ships are much more important though, and I have bought at least two ships in the past week. Occasionally, British have to trash their money engine (Boston/Philly/another ship) to finesse a siege, and a ship at 6 coin is the only way to get them back into the merchant business. If I had to choose, it would be one of the militia for each side.
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Matthew Rooks
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I would say the trader cards are another good candidate.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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To be clear, I wasn't suggesting a re-printing of cards based upon this suggestion. There was already one misprint, now a mis-colored Bateaux, and there have been several good suggestions (I suggested limiting connections to PR and Pemaquid and adding a ship to Canso, along with no governor of starting locations you control) that would change the cards. All of these things taken together, I am quite sure people would shell out for good cards.

I would gladly shell out for new cards and the ability to beat Tim, Clyde, and Matt, as well as end these threads, and get on with just playing.
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Martin Plourde
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Dystopian wrote:
An idea that might change the balance of the game quite a bit... Untested as yet. Just throwing this idea here for the wolves. Do you think it could be a good idea, or is this concept flawed from the start ?

Add a new card to the empire decks of both sides :

Quote:
Conscription
Empire Card
5 Gold to buy for the English
2 Gold to buy for the French
Effect : Pay one gold to place a location card from your hand in a siege, as if it was a military card. It counts as one strength point.

If you place location cards in a siege too early, you loose the french only viable option to make money : Fur. then you don't buy military, and loose siege.
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Conan Meriadoc
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Martin518 wrote:
If you place location cards in a siege too early, you loose the french only viable option to make money : Fur. then you don't buy military, and loose siege.

I'd expect the french player to try to always keep at least 3 fur cards in their (thinned) deck, unless both sides have already bought all the military available and a key location is under siege. Part of the extra locations could be used for conscription, and the other part governored away.

Counting too much on conscription can hurt you when the siege ends, and all those location cards pile up in your discard, bloating your deck. It might take a while (and another siege opportunity) before you get efficient again. Counting too much on the governor limits your expansion capabilities, and your maximum military value might limit you if the opponent uses conscription themselves.

I like where this is going, but I'm not sure what would be a reasonable cost for using the action : free (costing you the action), one gold (as is), two gold ? It definitely needs some playtesting. I don't have a lot of opportunities to play AFAOS these days (or 2-player games in general, for that matter), are there any volunteers that would be willing to test the variant and report their findings ?

 
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Conan Meriadoc
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Added (tentative) images for the cards to the first post. I added them to my personal gallery; should I try to list them in the AFAOS gallery, and is there a way to do this after it's uploaded ?
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Tom
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They look superb.
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Pay for the card, go through the effort of cycling, AND pay one money to add just ONE card to a Siege when its played? That sounds like a lot of money and effort for little help.

I'd rather there were a "Sortie/Relief/Desertion/Bribe" (Whatever you want to call it) card that players could buy or draft for an action. If the card is in your hand and you're the Defender in a Siege, you can play it as an action to break the Siege by paying money equal to the most expensive card present in the Siege (for either side). Location cards in a Siege are worth 1 plus the value of any coin on the card. Treat the broken Siege as if the Attacker had lost the Siege when checking for Siege Status at the start of the turn.
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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BradyLS wrote:
Pay for the card, go through the effort of cycling, AND pay one money to add just ONE card to a Siege when its played? That sounds like a lot of money and effort for little help.

Yes, that's a lot of effort, and in the end one extra point on the siege isn't much. Yet, for its perceived weakness, I'm afraid the card might be too much and tip the balance in favor of the french. That remains to be seen, of course.

Where it really helps is on drawn-out sieges, where players are bound to commit most of their military. The card changes the balance of maximum military available towards the player with the most locations. Of course, too many locations and you won't be able to cycle your deck quickly, which renders the card almost useless. The card also allows a player to temporarily get rid of useless locations in their deck, so that settling some locations won't hurt your military ability as much compared to a really thin deck. This allows increased efficiency for a mixed strategy (Settle and prepare for a good occasion to assault with military), as opposed to a settle rush or a military rush.

The effect is voluntarily "weak" and subtle, but believe me, it can have a huge impact on the game. If you don't see it, you probably haven't followed the strategy forums closely in the last few months... Which is probably for the best. Don't
 
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I've been following the threads. Not as closely as some, certainly.

I don't want to get in anyone's way of trying this if they think it will help.

I just don't see how the money spent on the card will help the French enough-or in time. More, it seems that it will just add to the pile of cards already going into a Siege. (Nevermind that it strengthens the impression that the game is about winning Sieges.)

Still, folks seem pretty keen on your effort. Well done!
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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BradyLS wrote:
I just don't see how the money spent on the card will help the French enough-or in time. More, it seems that it will just add to the pile of cards already going into a Siege. (Nevermind that it strengthens the impression that the game is about winning Sieges.)
Interestingly, I tend to think the opposite : with this card, winning sieges is secondary, having them stall as long as possible becomes an interesting option. It should deter the other player from starting a siege they can't end quickly.

The hammer works because the English players knows that they ultimately have the advantage if both players go all-out military (since they have more regular infantry cards), and that any move the french player makes to switch to another strategy weakens their military build-up, leading to defeat. With this card in play, if the English start a siege early game, the French can play defensively as they did before, mostly buying military and forts, while using an occasional conscription on the siege to get rid of location cards they don't need and still keeping pace in the military game. In essence, while the siege lasts, their deck gets more efficient, and their maximum potential military increases gradually with the siege's duration. When everyone has bought (and played) all the military they could, a few extra points of military can make the difference. The French player can even settle an extra location while under siege, and won't be penalized as much for doing so.

The card itself won't win wars. What I hope is that its presence will be enough to make the issue of an early military rush uncertain. If the french player has a chance to defend successfully while gaining something in the process, then the English have to consider alternatives. Maybe you're right and this won't be sufficient... Only playtesting will tell.

 
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Tim Seitz
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Dystopian wrote:
BradyLS wrote:
I just don't see how the money spent on the card will help the French enough-or in time. More, it seems that it will just add to the pile of cards already going into a Siege. (Nevermind that it strengthens the impression that the game is about winning Sieges.)
Interestingly, I tend to think the opposite : with this card, winning sieges is secondary, having them stall as long as possible becomes an interesting option.
Prolonging sieges is already the primary goal for the French.

Their deck only works well in a long siege.
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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out4blood wrote:
Prolonging sieges is already the primary goal for the French.
Their deck only works well in a long siege.
True. And with this card available, even more so.

As an expert player, do you think you would be able to hold off an English rush with this card added in (original or revised rules) ? As the English, would it make you consider other strategies besides the Hammer ?
 
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Tim Seitz
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Dystopian wrote:
out4blood wrote:
Prolonging sieges is already the primary goal for the French.
Their deck only works well in a long siege.
True. And with this card available, even more so.

As an expert player, do you think you would be able to hold off an English rush with this card added in (original or revised rules) ? As the English, would it make you consider other strategies besides the Hammer ?
Well, just based on experience, I would never use this card as British. British only have one card in a thinned deck that doesn't have military, and that is Philly. Philly would never go onto a siege, as you'll always need a settler and/or money). So, the question is, would it be worth it to keep St Mary's and Pemaquid around in case I ever wanted to make use of them in a protracted siege? No.

For the French, it is also a bad idea, except for the cases where they have purchased all of their military. Then it becomes useful for holding out. Otherwise they would lose a siege. However, subsequent sieges then becomes harder because the card will be in their deck mucking things up.
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Conan Meriadoc
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Interesting. I wonder if allowing to commit up to two location cards from hand per action (for one military each) could make it useful as an alternative to the governor.
 
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