Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
33 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: How do wounds work? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
flag msg tools
designer
Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have read and re-read the rulebook and the walkthrough over and over, but I cannot seems to grasp how wound, suffered by my hero and or my units, work.

It seems like I got it, but the wording is so complicated, that I think I missed something.

What I don't understand is:

1- I don block and attack: I or my unit(s) suffer wounds: how many?
2- If I allocate wounds to my hero, do I put them/it in my hand or the top of the deck?
3- if I put the wound cards in my hand, can I heal right away (proven I have a heal X card at hand)?
4- if the attack value of the enemy is 5 and the unit I want to allocate wounds to has 3 armor, do I put 2 wounds on such unit? What if it had 5 armor? And what if it had 6+ armor?

As you can see, I am pretty confused.

Thanx
Cheers
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aggelis Sarbanis
Greece
Korydallos
Attiki
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1) You have to suffer wounds until you reduced the attack value to zero or below. For example if your armor is 3 and the attack is 5, first wound reduces the attack to 2 and second wound reduces it below zero and you stop taking wounds
2) In your hand (if it's poisonous one in your hand and one in your discard pile)
3) Not during combat
3) You can only put one wound to a unit (only if the attack is poisonous you put 2). If it has 5 or even bigger armor it will absorb all the damage with one wound. If it has resistance for the type of the attack it will get zero wounds and still absorb the damage.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dennis Schwarz
Germany
Siegen
NRW
flag msg tools
GLOOOOOOOOOOOOOMHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEN!!!!!!!!!!!
badge
maybe on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay, here's how it is

If you don't block an attack of an enemy, you and / or your units suffer wounds.
You have the choice to allocate all wounds to your hero and / or your units.

If you allocate all the damage to yourself, you take one wound (into your hand) and reduce the damage that is dealt by the enemy by your armor value. If there is still damage left, you get another wound (again into your hand) and reduce the leftover damage by your armor value again. You repeat this step until there is no damage left.
So, if an enemy deals 8 damage to you and you have 3 armor, you would suffer a total of 3 wounds into your hand.

If you allocate damage to one of your units, place a wound on the unit (it is now wounded) and reduce the damage by the armor value of the unit. If there is any damage left, you have to decide again, where to allocate it (to yourself or to another unwounded unit) and the damage is then dealt as described above.

If your unit has immunity to the damage it is dealt (e.g. physical immunity against physical damage), you first reduce the damage by the armor value of the unit (only in this case, it does NOT get a wound first). If there is damage left, the unit MUST now take a wound and you reduce the damage again by the armor value of he unit.
Any leftover damage must be assigned as above.

After the battle, if you have healing cards in your hand of unused and unwounded units left that provide healing, you can play those cards and effects normally before the end of your turn.

And now to your example:
The enemy attacks for 5 and is not blocked, so it deals 5 damage. Your unit gets one wound and reduces the damage by 3, leaving 2 damage to be assigned. A unit cannot be assigned damage more than once during a single battle (even it has immunity and gets no wound).
The remaining 2 damage would have to be assigned to another unwounded unit or yourself.

If the unit had 5 or more armor it would take a wound and reduce the damage to 0, leaving no damage to be assigned.

special cases like poisonous are explained by the OP

I hope that helps

Ikim wrote:

1- I don block and attack: I or my unit(s) suffer wounds: how many?
2- If I allocate wounds to my hero, do I put them/it in my hand or the top of the deck?
3- if I put the wound cards in my hand, can I heal right away (proven I have a heal X card at hand)?
4- if the attack value of the enemy is 5 and the unit I want to allocate wounds to has 3 armor, do I put 2 wounds on such unit? What if it had 5 armor? And what if it had 6+ armor?
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikkel Øberg
Denmark
Virum
flag msg tools
badge
Ahh, you found me... Run!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ikim wrote:
4- if the attack value of the enemy is 5 and the unit I want to allocate wounds to has 3 armor, do I put 2 wounds on such unit? What if it had 5 armor? And what if it had 6+ armor?

Just wanted to elaborate a bit on the answer of Aggelis.
If you assign damage from a 5 attack with a 3 armour unit, the unit would take a wound, reduce the attack by 3, and the remaining 2 damage should either be taken by another unit (given it a wound and reducing damage by its armour) or you should take it yourself: if your amour it 2 or higher, you would take a single wound, reduce the damage by 2 (or more) and there would be no more damage left.

Let's for argument's sake say you have 1 armour: the two damage would then give you two wounds (as the first wound only reduces the damage from 2 to 1, and you have to assign yet another wound).

To sum it up: you are about to assign X damage. You have the option of assigning it to any number of your unwounded units; the moment you begin assigning to yourself, you can no longer assign to units. The first target you assign damage takes a wound, reduces the damage by its armour (of value Y), and if Y is smaller than X you have to assign the remaining X-Y damage to a new target. Continue doing so until the remaining damage (X-Y-Z-.....) drops to 0 or lower.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
flag msg tools
designer
Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanx all for the prompt responses.
The wounding process is quite complicated...

Let's do a practical example:

Enemy attack 6 (normal, so no poison or paralyze)
I have 1 unit with armor 1
I don't block
My armor is 3

What I think I'd do is:
Deal 1 wound to the unit (the attack is reduced to 5, now)
I suffer 1 wound (which comes in my hand) (the attack now is 2, because of my armor 3)
Since my armor is higher than the remaining attack, my armor should absorb any remaining attacks

In the end, 1 unit is wounded and I received 1 wound.

Did I do it right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aggelis Sarbanis
Greece
Korydallos
Attiki
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You have to take one more wound to absorb the remaining 2 points. In the end 1 wound for your unit and two for your hero

PS: In this case it would be better to absorb all the damage with your hero since he can take all damage and leave your unit unharmed
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ludlow
United States
Saint Louis Park
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Assign the wound card. Then do the subtraction. Then check to see if the damage has been reduced to zero.

A hero with armor 3 who is taking 2 damage still gets 1 wound card.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
NaN Do
Netherlands
flag msg tools
No, only units allowed to absorb damage and dont take wound card are the ones with physical shield, like the golems.
Since you dont have such thing, you have to take 2 wounds cards, becase you dont absorve damage, you just reduce the attack as much as your shield, as many times as needed and any time ,you take the wound card.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In your example you would take 2 wounds. You keep taking wounds until your armor drops the damage to zero or less.

Example:
Super monster hits you for 10 damage you have one unit with 2 armor and you have 3 armor.
Unit takes a wound and drops the damage from 10 to 8 (10 - 2 = 8)
You have no more units and must take the remaining 8 damage.
8 - 3 (your armor value) = 5 you have 1 wound now and 5 damage to assign
5 - 3 (your armor value) = 2 you now have 2 wound carss in hand and 2 damage to assign
2 - 3 (your armor value) = -1 ( the total damage is now at 0 or lower) you now have 3 wounds in hand but no more damage to assign.

The only major consideration is poison or resistances.
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vasilis
Greece
Heraklion Crete
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ikim wrote:
Thanx all for the prompt responses.
The wounding process is quite complicated...

Let's do a practical example:

Enemy attack 6 (normal, so no poison or paralyze)
I have 1 unit with armor 1
I don't block
My armor is 3

What I think I'd do is:
Deal 1 wound to the unit (the attack is reduced to 5, now)
I suffer 1 wound (which comes in my hand) (the attack now is 2, because of my armor 3)
Since my armor is higher than the remaining attack, my armor should absorb any remaining attacks

In the end, 1 unit is wounded and I received 1 wound.

Did I do it right?


Almost. Armor does not absorb damage in this game. It reduces it. So even if you had 99 Armor and you were dealt 1 damage, you'd have to take 1 wound.

Hope that makes sense now.


EDIT: Ninjas. They hit when you least expect it...
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brendan b
United States
chicago
Select State
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This thread has been a great help...thanks to all.

Since we're here, may I ask a follow up question? ninja

Now, let's say we assigned one wound to both a unit and ourselves. What are the options for removing said wounds?

I get confused as to which options make us place wounds into our discard pile vs. which options let us remove the wounds back to the box...or wound pile.

Not trying to snipe the thread...just though the original question has been answered, thoroughly, and mine would be the logical next one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikkel Øberg
Denmark
Virum
flag msg tools
badge
Ahh, you found me... Run!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brendanb wrote:
Now, let's say we assigned one wound to both a unit and ourselves. What are the options for removing said wounds?

I get confused as to which options make us place wounds into our discard pile vs. which options let us remove the wounds back to the box...or wound pile.

Wounds are removed/thrown away/put back in the box/back in the wound pile whenever you are allowed to heal (action card in your starting deck, paying influence at a monestary or village), or an ability specifically states you can throw away a wound (the mystical glade, some skills).

All other times, the wound are discarded into your deck (when resting during your turn). Note that wounds from units are never put into your deck, they are either healed (moved to the wound pile) or not.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Kazmierczak
msg tools
Here's a question: if I take wounds during the assign damage phase while I am playing the chick (forget her name, sorry) and I have the skill that allows me to use one wound a turn as a +2 card, can I use those wounds immediately to attack with provided I haven't already used a wound in that turn?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TKaz84 wrote:
Here's a question: if I take wounds during the assign damage phase while I am playing the chick (forget her name, sorry) and I have the skill that allows me to use one wound a turn as a +2 card, can I use those wounds immediately to attack with provided I haven't already used a wound in that turn?


Wound cards are taken into your hand during the "assign damage" phase of combat, so if you have a skill that can make use of wound cards in the "attack phase" go right ahead...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Beakley
United States
Tempe
AZ
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Can't remember if it's in the book but I can't bring it to mind right now: Are individual enemy attacks resolved sequentially or simultaneously? Here's the scenario I'm thinking about:

I'm facing two enemies. I have an unused Unit available and some cards. I can't block both enemies at once but I could block one and let the other through if I declare them to be two different attacks. Let's say I take on the blockable enemy "first" (assuming there's a sequence), and use my unit to hit it. Then if I took on the unblockable enemy after, I could assign damage from that unblocked enemy to the unit that I already used for that other attack.

If it's all simultaneous then this isn't possible. Just can't remember which way it goes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bear Klaw
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You have to do each phase (ranged, block, assign wounds, attack) for all enemies before moving on to the next phase. In your example you would have to resolve the blocks for both enemies and then assign damage for unblocked attack before you can attack. This means that your unit would not be able to attack, as it would be wounded.

You can combine enemies together when attacking them, but when blocking you have to resolve them individually. This means a single unit with a block of 4 can not block two attackers, each with a strength of 2.

PBeakley wrote:
Can't remember if it's in the book but I can't bring it to mind right now: Are individual enemy attacks resolved sequentially or simultaneously? Here's the scenario I'm thinking about:

I'm facing two enemies. I have an unused Unit available and some cards. I can't block both enemies at once but I could block one and let the other through if I declare them to be two different attacks. Let's say I take on the blockable enemy "first" (assuming there's a sequence), and use my unit to hit it. Then if I took on the unblockable enemy after, I could assign damage from that unblocked enemy to the unit that I already used for that other attack.

If it's all simultaneous then this isn't possible. Just can't remember which way it goes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bearklaw wrote:
You have to do each phase (ranged, block, assign wounds, attack) for all enemies before moving on to the next phase. In your example you would have to resolve the blocks for both enemies and then assign damage for unblocked attack before you can attack. This means that your unit would not be able to attack, as it would be wounded.
(Italics mine)

As I understand it, using a unit's powers (it must be "ready" to act and upon acting, becomes "spent") and its ability to absorb damage are two separate considerations. A unit could block or attack as long as it was ready, but being spent does not prevent it from being assigned damage. The only condition is that the unit does not already have a wound on it.

So, a wounded unit can still use its powers (which could include blocking or attacking) but not be able to absorb further damage, and a spent unit (but not yet wounded) could be assigned damage. It may be that something like the previous poster stated could be done (attack one enemy with its power after having been assigned damage from another). Puzzles within puzzles - combat management in MK is yet another puzzle solving exercise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Beakley
United States
Tempe
AZ
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mmm...I think a wounded unit can't be "activated." Ah, here we go: p4, Using Units, 5: A unit that is Ready and not Wounded may be activated for one of its abilities...

Based on another reading of the Ranged and Attack sections of the Combat rules, the whole "line up each attack as a column" language, and the fact that there's an entire Ranged phase and an entire Block phase before Assign Damage, strongly implies that all damage is simultaneously, not sequentially, resolved. Since you don't do the whole ranged->block->damage->attack cycle for each column, but rather resolve each step for every column/group before moving forward.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Debien
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bubslug wrote:
bearklaw wrote:
You have to do each phase (ranged, block, assign wounds, attack) for all enemies before moving on to the next phase. In your example you would have to resolve the blocks for both enemies and then assign damage for unblocked attack before you can attack. This means that your unit would not be able to attack, as it would be wounded.
(Italics mine)

As I understand it, using a unit's powers (it must be "ready" to act and upon acting, becomes "spent") and its ability to absorb damage are two separate considerations. A unit could block or attack as long as it was ready, but being spent does not prevent it from being assigned damage. The only condition is that the unit does not already have a wound on it.

So, a wounded unit can still use its powers (which could include blocking or attacking) but not be able to absorb further damage, and a spent unit (but not yet wounded) could be assigned damage. It may be that something like the previous poster stated could be done (attack one enemy with its power after having been assigned damage from another). Puzzles within puzzles - combat management in MK is yet another puzzle solving exercise.


Incorrect. A wounded unit cannot attack. See "Using Units", section 5: A unit that is ready and not Wounded may be activated...

Edit: A spent unit can be wounded however.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
casualgod wrote:
Bubslug wrote:
bearklaw wrote:
You have to do each phase (ranged, block, assign wounds, attack) for all enemies before moving on to the next phase. In your example you would have to resolve the blocks for both enemies and then assign damage for unblocked attack before you can attack. This means that your unit would not be able to attack, as it would be wounded.
(Italics mine)

As I understand it, using a unit's powers (it must be "ready" to act and upon acting, becomes "spent") and its ability to absorb damage are two separate considerations. A unit could block or attack as long as it was ready, but being spent does not prevent it from being assigned damage. The only condition is that the unit does not already have a wound on it.

So, a wounded unit can still use its powers (which could include blocking or attacking) but not be able to absorb further damage, and a spent unit (but not yet wounded) could be assigned damage. It may be that something like the previous poster stated could be done (attack one enemy with its power after having been assigned damage from another). Puzzles within puzzles - combat management in MK is yet another puzzle solving exercise.


Incorrect. A wounded unit cannot attack. See "Using Units", section 5: A unit that is ready and not Wounded may be activated...

Edit: A spent unit can be wounded however.


Right, good catch - which is why units with range/siege attack and/or a good block ability are quite valuable as they can use their ability and still be available to absorb damage in the same battle. I had thought it worked the other way around as well but now know better. The only way the plan put forward earlier that generated this discussion could work was if the unit assigned to take the unblocked damage managed to do so without taking a wound (via resistances).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Maloof

Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
msg tools
mbmb
One thing to remember is that damage to enemies doesn't carry over between phases -- if you're fighting an orc with 4 health, you can't have your crossbowmen shoot him for 2 in the ranged phase, wound the crossbowmen in the Assign Damage phase, and then finish him off with another attack 2. You have to do all the damage in a single phase.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Hurp
United Kingdom
Aldershot
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Toper wrote:
One thing to remember is that damage to enemies doesn't carry over between phases -- if you're fighting an orc with 4 health, you can't have your crossbowmen shoot him for 2 in the ranged phase, wound the crossbowmen in the Assign Damage phase, and then finish him off with another attack 2. You have to do all the damage in a single phase.

But can't you 'downgrade/delay' attacks? So the crossbowmen use thier Ranged Attack 2 as a simple Attack 2 in the same phase as the other Attack 2?
At least that's how we've been playing it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Garth Boucher
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fabs wrote:

But can't you 'downgrade/delay' attacks? So the crossbowmen use thier Ranged Attack 2 as a simple Attack 2 in the same phase as the other Attack 2?
At least that's how we've been playing it.


Yes, that's clearly allowed from page 8 of the main rulebook, Attack phase 1a.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Debien
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
garthasl wrote:
Fabs wrote:

But can't you 'downgrade/delay' attacks? So the crossbowmen use thier Ranged Attack 2 as a simple Attack 2 in the same phase as the other Attack 2?
At least that's how we've been playing it.


Yes, that's clearly allowed from page 8 of the main rulebook, Attack phase 1a.


It is allowed. The issue then becomes that you cant wound the crossbowmen in the Assign Damage phase if you want them to attack afterwards, which having them attack in the ranged phase allows you to do.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
casualgod wrote:
garthasl wrote:
Fabs wrote:

But can't you 'downgrade/delay' attacks? So the crossbowmen use thier Ranged Attack 2 as a simple Attack 2 in the same phase as the other Attack 2?
At least that's how we've been playing it.


Yes, that's clearly allowed from page 8 of the main rulebook, Attack phase 1a.


It is allowed. The issue then becomes that you cant wound the crossbowmen in the Assign Damage phase if you want them to attack afterwards, which having them attack in the ranged phase allows you to do.


That's an important timing consideration. You can't activate a wounded unit so if you intend for them to suck up some damage and still use their powers to do something, you better arrange to do it before they take that wound card. After they perform their action and become spent, they can still be used to take damage as long as they aren't already wounded.

Better yet, if you have a unit with the right resistance and they can take damage that doesn't exceed their armour value, then they don't take a wound and can be used again in a future battle to do it over again, spent or not. An example of this is in another thread where a pair of Ice Mages were effectively used against a pack of freezers...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.