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Subject: Scuttle Tech rss

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Carter
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An interesting variant might be to allow scuttling of techs that have become available. It's somewhat thematically counter-intuitive, however it does present some interesting decisions.

An example of how to implement this: an additional option when taking the Influence action would be to remove all tiles of one tech from the available techs (doesn't affect tiles in the bag or already researched). It could be chalked up as sabotage.

Another thought, perhaps better thematically, is that you can only take the above Influence action if you have researched the tech in question. This is a bit like the Western world preventing rogue states from getting nukes.

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It might even be interesting if there were a race that excelled at this type of activity, bent on impeding progress...
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Jonathan Ramundi
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Interesting idea.
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Scott DeMers
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pzkrakz wrote:
It might even be interesting if there were a race that excelled at this type of activity, bent on impeding progress...


The Polish?

(Yes, that was meant in jest so please do not flame me)
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Ben MacFarlane
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pzkrakz wrote:
An interesting variant might be to allow scuttling of techs that have become available. It's somewhat thematically counter-intuitive, however it does present some interesting decisions.

An example of how to implement this: an additional option when taking the Influence action would be to remove all tiles of one tech from the available techs (doesn't affect tiles in the bag or already researched). It could be chalked up as sabotage.

Another thought, perhaps better thematically, is that you can only take the above Influence action if you have researched the tech in question. This is a bit like the Western world preventing rogue states from getting nukes.

---

It might even be interesting if there were a race that excelled at this type of activity, bent on impeding progress...


It seems like this would cause a problem with combat, where a significant aspect is countering your enemy's strengths. For example, if it were possible to 1) create a very specialized fleet, then 2) remove all techs that can counter this (which, given that not all techs show up anyway, might be pretty easy to do), it would make countering specialized fleets more difficult and probably make the game a lot more aggressive and less well-balanced.
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Jeff A
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Yes, I would agree with Ben,

In the games i have played, the issue is typically that one player is doing particularly well, they tend to have more resources, more research and more money. They also tend to have ships that are upgraded heavily because they have the infrastructure to support research and upgrades and ship building.

It is unlikely that a players best move would be to scuttle all of a tech to hurt that player rather than take a tech that would help their infrastructure or help them resist that players fleet strengths.

Instead it is more likely that the scuttle ability would be used by the player who is already strong to scuttle something like advanced economy or a shield tech/computer tech/weapon tech that would threaten them.

Games should be fun.
If there are mechanisms that I believe should be in all games to keep the game worth playing for all players, those are mechanisms which hinder the player in the lead enough to give those lagging a chance.

If anything Eclipse is a bit lacking on that, its best lead limiting feature in my opinion is that actions get more expensive and limited in number the bigger your civilization.
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Carter
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Kingsix wrote:
Yes, I would agree with Ben,

In the games i have played, the issue is typically that one player is doing particularly well, they tend to have more resources, more research and more money. They also tend to have ships that are upgraded heavily because they have the infrastructure to support research and upgrades and ship building.

It is unlikely that a players best move would be to scuttle all of a tech to hurt that player rather than take a tech that would help their infrastructure or help them resist that players fleet strengths.

Instead it is more likely that the scuttle ability would be used by the player who is already strong to scuttle something like advanced economy or a shield tech/computer tech/weapon tech that would threaten them.

Games should be fun.
If there are mechanisms that I believe should be in all games to keep the game worth playing for all players, those are mechanisms which hinder the player in the lead enough to give those lagging a chance.

If anything Eclipse is a bit lacking on that, its best lead limiting feature in my opinion is that actions get more expensive and limited in number the bigger your civilization.


I agree with your point that it would generally be a better use of an action to build your own infrastructure, however there are certainly situations where you really don't want someone to get a specific tech. I've had a couple of games where, to my surprise, someone took a tech that would give me significant advantage, and offered them little, just to block me. I don't think that's a great use of your action and science, but it is an interesting tactic. In later games I found myself baiting people to do this by mumbling stuff like "... oh, man, if I get that tech then I could ... "

Perhaps the mightiest player might use such an ability to gain further advantage, however that seems a perfectly acceptable outcome to playing well, and has safeguard in the fact that (i) it requires an action, (ii) you get no direct benefit, and (iii) other players can still gang up on the perceived leader.

On the flip-side, I think it would also be interesting if you could use Research actions to draw additional tiles to the board (again, no immediate, direct benefit). So, I suppose my point here is that it would be interesting to be able to manipulate the tech advancements.
 
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Jeff A
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That is pretty interesting, the draw additional techs idea.

A crazy system could be no tech board at all, you research and draw a random tech from the bag, if you already have it if you can't afford or already have the tech, sell it to someone!
If no one wants or can afford it, or if the one person who wants it, you would prefer they didn't have the tech, well then just discard it from the game and you used a research action for no benefit.

That would be a nuts system, but it might be fun to try once and see the mayhem it caused.
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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Both ideas are interesting thoughts for benefits for a new race.
 
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