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Eclipse» Forums » Variants

Subject: VP Draw for Exploration rss

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Carter
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Aimed at reducing turtling, one variant would be to allow a VP tile draw based on exploration. This is similar to the way that Dominant Species encourages uniform exploration. Specifically, when placing a new tile, you get 1 draw per other hex it connects to, beyond the first (meaning you draw x tiles and keep one). I realize that the tile VP distribution already entices exploration toward the center, but this would provided added incentive (though it does reduce the appeal of combat if VPs are drawn out from the bag).
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Greg Lott
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Little Elm
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I don't see much turtling in this game. It already gives a good deal of reward for conflict.
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Sebastian Grawan
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Lehrte
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ferris1971 wrote:
I don't see much turtling in this game. It already gives a good deal of reward for conflict.
....this.
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David Hoffman
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Cortlandt Manor
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Also, turtlers already receive VP for hexes they control and, one must assume, 3 VP for every Monolith they build (and really, if you're turtling and not building Monoliths, aren't you doing it wrong?)
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Jeff A
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Yeah I would say that this would give you an advantage to turtling. Basically giving a VP draw for not attacking.

I fall in the camp that disagrees that turtling is a problem.

Edit: I think that the only problem Eclipse really has is that there is not enough holding back the rich and powerful. Some other games that I enjoy have a real benefit to being in last place hindrance to those in first. I am not really sure how this could be handled since its hard to know who is in the lead at any point.

Double Edit: Usually this would be handled by those behind ganging up on the strong, but in Eclipse sometimes the better option for someone in 2nd place is to attack those weaker rather than attacking the strong.
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Purple Paladin

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But turtling is a big problem, a huge problem, with beggining players that is. Everyone is "scard" and unsure of how the game mechanics work, so they play VERY conservitively.

I think my entire group pretty much turtled the entire first game, and most of the second.

You learn fast, turtles only win if you sit there like a turtle yourself and let them. Our last two games were crazy battles, especially the last couple turns.
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Greg Lott
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Purple Paladin wrote:
But turtling is a big problem, a huge problem, with beggining players that is. Everyone is "scard" and unsure of how the game mechanics work, so they play VERY conservitively.

I think my entire group pretty much turtled the entire first game, and most of the second.

You learn fast, turtles only win if you sit there like a turtle yourself and let them. Our last two games were crazy battles, especially the last couple turns.


But that's not a problem, that's a growing pain. Don't nerf the matured game just to shore up the learning game. In my experience, everyone enjoys this game even when everyone turtles the first game any ways. The second game, though, when someone goes all war-monger, it's quite the eye opener.

"You mean, by going in there he lost an interceptor, but potentially gained a 4 VP rep tile?"

Light

Bulb

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Purple Paladin

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Oh, I'm not saying I'm for or against the variant, just that turtling is a problem, but with newer players, not the game usually.
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Daniel Hammond
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I think potentially new players will learn the game better "turtling" than they will getting ripped apart by an experienced player. Having a game where you are in control of your economy, seeing how actions limit you and digesting the game will probably help them understand their second game better. When I am teaching a new player, I tend to defend my areas but don't attack them unless I get attacked (even if it costs me points).
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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What kills me is I have never seen a turtling player win, and I think I have 9 games under my belt now.

I also don't understand how rewarding exploring reduces turtling?
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Purple Paladin

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Put a couple 5 RP tiles, and some more 4s too, in the draw bag for combat, you'll eliminate turtles soon enough. laugh
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Carter
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Vanish wrote:
What kills me is I have never seen a turtling player win, and I think I have 9 games under my belt now.

I also don't understand how rewarding exploring reduces turtling?


Yeah, I don't see turtling as an issue either, just that there were some other posts that suggested it is. I have only tried it once, and did win, but in all the other games we played the turtlers did not win.

If draws are based on the number of adjacent tiles beyond the first, then presumably you would get more VP by exploring the I and II sector tiles, however I can see how that could be 'gamed' to turtler's advantage as well, so agreed, not the best suggestion.
 
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