Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
34 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: Warning to Euro Sleevers...... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Red Porper
msg tools
If you like to sleeve your cards with the Mayday Euro sleeves, you may be in for a nasty surprise in a couple of years.

Went into my supplies to pull out some sleeves to use on a new game. I bought a ton of them two years ago so that I would always have some on hand, but hadn't really used many since I bought them.

Prepare to be appalled and horrified. I don't know how to link pictures directly in. If someone could tell me how, I will gladly do so.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1166175/redporper?size=or...

See all that yellow crap all over the sleeves? I am pretty sure that makes these the OPPOSITE of "Archival Safe" and "Acid Free", which is how they are marked right on the front of the package. What a joke. Total ripoff.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Flying Arrow
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It wouldn't be the first black eye for Mayday Games.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Vollick
Canada
St. Thomas
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd be cautious about taking things at face value.

After reading your post I went into a drawer and pulled out the exact same sleeves I got 2 years ago.

No yellow, no problems with them at all. And I ordered 1,000 at the time. None of them have that yellowing or any other obvious defects.

And trust me, I'm no huge fan of Mayday.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate Straight

Covington
Louisiana
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Blech. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this.

The only game I've ever sleeved is my 1st ed. Through The Ages, and I think they're Mayday sleeves on it. I wonder if it's time I pulled 'em off and replaced them with a higher grade brand.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hugh G. Rection
United States
La Mesa
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's what you get for storing them with your urine samples.
40 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim McMahon
United States
West Springfield
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Lookee what he can do! He wants a job!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rokkr wrote:
I'd be cautious about taking things at face value.

After reading your post I went into a drawer and pulled out the exact same sleeves I got 2 years ago.

No yellow, no problems with them at all. And I ordered 1,000 at the time. None of them have that yellowing or any other obvious defects.

And trust me, I'm no huge fan of Mayday.
Same here, except that the 1,000 quantity isn't quite the same for me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Koppang
United States
Westmont
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
"It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy..."
badge
"For the listener, who listens in the snow, and, nothing himself, beholds nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." -- Wallace Stevens
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yet another reason to avoid sleeving altogether.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Red Porper
msg tools
Rokkr wrote:
I'd be cautious about taking things at face value.

After reading your post I went into a drawer and pulled out the exact same sleeves I got 2 years ago.

No yellow, no problems with them at all. And I ordered 1,000 at the time. None of them have that yellowing or any other obvious defects.

And trust me, I'm no huge fan of Mayday.



Honestly, it could be more than two years ago. I got them whenever they were very first introduced. That first run of them sold out, and I bought these when the second run came out. Anyone remember exactly how long ago that was?

The picture I took was a couple of weeks ago. I do live in a very dry climate, but I don't know if that has anything to do with it. None of those packs had been opened. Out of around 30 packs, there were 5 with no yellow marks on them at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Red Porper
msg tools
D6Frog wrote:
RedPorper wrote:
Rokkr wrote:
I'd be cautious about taking things at face value.

After reading your post I went into a drawer and pulled out the exact same sleeves I got 2 years ago.

No yellow, no problems with them at all. And I ordered 1,000 at the time. None of them have that yellowing or any other obvious defects.

And trust me, I'm no huge fan of Mayday.



Honestly, it could be more than two years ago. I got them whenever they were very first introduced. That first run of them sold out, and I bought these when the second run came out. Anyone remember exactly how long ago that was?

The picture I took was a couple of weeks ago. I do live in a very dry climate, but I don't know if that has anything to do with it. None of those packs had been opened. Out of around 30 packs, there were 5 with no yellow marks on them at all.

What exactly did you store them in? What was the container made out of?


A felt-lined wooden drawer. It's the drawer right below the picture. Had a container of ziplock sandwich bags and small size bits baggies stored there as well. No yellowing on either of them. I bought the bits baggies at least 10 years ago and rarely have to get into them as nearly all games I buy ship with bags included now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RedPorper wrote:
Rokkr wrote:
I'd be cautious about taking things at face value.

After reading your post I went into a drawer and pulled out the exact same sleeves I got 2 years ago.

No yellow, no problems with them at all. And I ordered 1,000 at the time. None of them have that yellowing or any other obvious defects.

And trust me, I'm no huge fan of Mayday.



Honestly, it could be more than two years ago. I got them whenever they were very first introduced. That first run of them sold out, and I bought these when the second run came out. Anyone remember exactly how long ago that was?

The picture I took was a couple of weeks ago. I do live in a very dry climate, but I don't know if that has anything to do with it. None of those packs had been opened. Out of around 30 packs, there were 5 with no yellow marks on them at all.

I ordered some from the first time they appeared and a bunch more from the second printing. So I have sleeves on and off cards from both runs.
I've seen nothing like this in any of my sleeved cards or the unused ones.
Seriously, there are tons of possibilities of unwanted chemical interactions between a gamut of products.
I'd be more likely to suspect some kind of contamination than a manufacturing defect.
Surely after a couple of years and zillions of these things floating around you wouldn't be the first to find this occurrence if it were the manufacturing process, I suspect.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
Tete Montoliu - Tootie's Tempo
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rokkr wrote:
Surely after a couple of years and zillions of these things floating around you wouldn't be the first to find this occurrence if it were the manufacturing process, I suspect.

Surely if it did start happening, somebody would be the first to find it.
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Sphere wrote:
Rokkr wrote:
Surely after a couple of years and zillions of these things floating around you wouldn't be the first to find this occurrence if it were the manufacturing process, I suspect.

Surely if it did start happening, somebody would be the first to find it.


Yes but there is no guarantee they would report it and there would be a cluster of reports.

I see no evidence, as I'm no chemist, that they did not react to something else. Jumping to conclusions does none of us any favours. It could be mould growth, a spill, osmosis, faulty manufacturing batch or a general fault of the product. I don't know. It could even be a cat peeing on it.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm sure card sleeves, Mayday or otherwise, are made of the same or similar material as polyethylene/polypropylene comic book bags:

"The downside to poly bags is they tend to discolor and the heat sealing method of securing the edges introduces a chemical (PVDC) which may be harmful over time. ... If you are storing less valuable comic books for a short period of time (a couple of years or less), then you probably want to go with “poly” bags and a less expensive backing board. These are the bags you see most comic books stored in at a comic book store. Why? They do an adequate job at a reasonable price. They protect your comic books from handling, but they do break down or “yellow” over time. If you decide to keep your comic books for more than a couple of years you should change your bags to either another poly bag or upgrade to a Mylar®."

http://www.comicbooksecrets.com/theblog/comic-book-storage-s...

So two years sounds about right for the sleeves to become yellow. If you want to *archive* your cards, don't even sleeve them. If you want to *protect* your cards from normal play, sleeve. If you want to do both, you're going to have to change sleeves at least every two years.

Ugh. I'm gonna have to unsleeve my old Magic cards...


EDIT: I checked the Mayday site. Yep, they're polypropelene. Myself, I have cards in penny sleeves that are over *ten* years old that are still doing fine. But I've seen the yellowing in poly comic book bags, so you take your chances.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Haglert
Sweden
Örebro
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RedPorper wrote:
A felt-lined wooden drawer. It's the drawer right below the picture. Had a container of ziplock sandwich bags and small size bits baggies stored there as well. No yellowing on either of them. I bought the bits baggies at least 10 years ago and rarely have to get into them as nearly all games I buy ship with bags included now.
Maybe they are porous and have sucked out oil from the wood?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Red Porper
msg tools
I never spilled anything in it. In fact, the cabinet is unfinished natural wood.

As for the condition of the cards, I don't know. The only thing I ever sleeved was Dominion. I knew there were a bunch of expansions planned, but I ended up burning out on Dominion long before the expansion came out, so I auctioned it as sleeved. I had never attempted to sleeve another game until a couple of weeks ago when I saw that.

The possibilities as to what caused it all crossed my mind. I didn't rush right out and post this without thinking about the consequences for the maker of these sleeves. I knew it would be inflammatory, so I wanted to make sure that I wasn't posting a picture of something that I myself had caused. I'm also not looking to get any kind of refund or replacement. I honestly just want to warn the archivist crowd about these sleeves. I'm not really the archivist type, and now kind of think sleeves are more trouble than their worth. I never suspected that they could possibly damage a game.

There isn't any finish on the drawer. It isn't mold or contamination. Certainly, the other kinds of plastic/bags I had in the drawer would have suffered as well. In fact, the sleeves were on top of the other baggies, which had no problem. The yellowing doesn't appear to have any odor to it. Not all the sleeves are yellow, but most are.

The ones that are yellow range from just the ends, all the way to completely yellow. They weren't stored stacked nicely, they were just tossed in the drawer. Despite that, the yellowing on the ones that are only partially yellow starts at the end of the package - the same end in every case - the bottom. It's hard to tell where it started on the ones that are completely yellow. Doesn't appear to be any pattern as to which packs went totally yellow and which ones are (so far) only yellow on the end.

You can see that after I discovered the yellowing I was bagging them up (a large ziplock bag with a bunch of them appears at the back right) because I didn't want the sleeves to contaminate anything else. I paused the bagging long enough to spread some of them out and take a picture. Then I resumed putting them all into the larger ziploc.

In the same drawer, I have extra game boards, plastic pieces, rubber bands, etc. Nothing else in the drawer is damaged in any way, but I now want to keep the sleeves separate so that they don't mess anything else up. At this point I have the room for them so I guess it's going to be a science experiment. I'll come back to them in two or three more years and see how they look then.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The yellowing described above about comic book sleeves is usually overall, not spotted in nature or in certain areas of the plastic as in the sleeves in the photo.

I have similar plastic sleeves on vinyl albums that are close to 40 years old and show none of the yellowing akin to the description of comic book sleeves above.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Red Porper
msg tools
Sam and Max wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm sure card sleeves, Mayday or otherwise, are made of the same or similar material as polyethylene/polypropylene comic book bags:

"The downside to poly bags is they tend to discolor and the heat sealing method of securing the edges introduces a chemical (PVDC) which may be harmful over time. ... If you are storing less valuable comic books for a short period of time (a couple of years or less), then you probably want to go with “poly” bags and a less expensive backing board. These are the bags you see most comic books stored in at a comic book store. Why? They do an adequate job at a reasonable price. They protect your comic books from handling, but they do break down or “yellow” over time. If you decide to keep your comic books for more than a couple of years you should change your bags to either another poly bag or upgrade to a Mylar®."

http://www.comicbooksecrets.com/theblog/comic-book-storage-s...

So two years sounds about right for the sleeves to become yellow. If you want to *archive* your cards, don't even sleeve them. If you want to *protect* your cards from normal play, sleeve. If you want to do both, you're going to have to change sleeves at least every two years.

Ugh. I'm gonna have to unsleeve my old Magic cards...


Agreed. The point being is that RIGHT ON THE FRONT of the package, you see the claim that it is "Archival safe" and "Acid free - No PVC". These claims are apparently false as evidenced.

I was a comic book collector way back when. Learned my bagging lesson on my double-cover Punisher War Journal #1. Acid free bags AND acid free backing boards. The guy at the comic book shop I sold it to wanted to slap me in the face. And for I minute, I thought he was going to do it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry, but ONE report of a problem from likely thousands of users is assuredly NOT evidence of apparent falsehood on the label.

And it's not particularly responsible to make such a claim without considerably more evidence or a chemical analysis in my opinion.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Digren K
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Were the yellowed portion of sleeves brittle? Stiff? Did they feel different (i.e. rougher, less slick) than the non-sleeved parts?

For the ones that turned yellow, are the outer plastic bags (the Mayday bags that the sleeves came in) also yellowed, or are they still completely flexible and clear? I can't tell for sure from the image. Were they stored upright or flat? (And if upright, were they all arranged so the bottom edges were at the bottom?)

Some plastics yellow with age far worst than others. I've been clearing out a lot of old junk lately since we just moved, and I found a stack of refurbished network interface cards that I took home from an old job years ago (rescued from the trash). For some of them their plastic clam shell was yellow and kind of rough, while others were still clear and silky, with basically the same storage history.

Some plastics can be greatly affected by flame retardants. Old Commodore 64s (and a lot of other old electronics) would darken or yellow with age, not because of the plastic itself by due to added flame retardants the plastic was mixed with.

http://hackaday.com/2009/03/02/restoring-yellowed-computer-p...

Just some thoughts.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Tullsen
United States
Tigard
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, And I must follow, if I can, Pursuing it with eager feet, Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet.
badge
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Where did you store the sleeves? That might have affected it...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Troy
Canada
Stratford
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I too would like to say that I have sleeves from over two years directly from Mayday. No yellow and no issues with the unused sleeves or the sleeves on cards.

As people have mentioned without a full analysis of the cards we won't know whether it is a manufacturing defect or something from the environment it was stored in.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
☆ ✧ ☆ ✧ ☆
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Looking at these stars suddenly dwarfed my own troubles and all the gravities of terrestrial life. I thought of their unfathomable distance, and the slow inevitable drift of their movements out of the unknown past into the unknown future. H.G. Wells
badge
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. Chief Seattle
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I notice the sleeves are stored in their ziplock container.

I also notice that no claims are made as to the ziplock container being archival safe, pvc free or acid free.

I wonder if the sleeves are reacting to the ziplock bag?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yoki Erdtman
Sweden
Södertälje
flag msg tools
badge
Handsome devil huh?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stinkoman wrote:
I too would like to say that I have sleeves from over two years directly from Mayday. No yellow and no issues with the unused sleeves or the sleeves on cards.

Just like Troy, I have Mayday sleeves dating back from when they were first released and they are still in perfect condition.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
frumpish wrote:
I notice the sleeves are stored in their ziplock container.

I also notice that no claims are made as to the ziplock container being archival safe, pvc free or acid free.

I wonder if the sleeves are reacting to the ziplock bag?


If I were to guess (which is not really a good idea) I would suspect the containers to be the culprit. The seals may use glue and will be of a different plastic. So will the bags. Also our air contains countless microbes, many of which may have done that. 'Airtight' seals are not really airtight at all.

It was good of the op to bring this to our attention but I'm always wary of jumping to conclusions, especially as some posters happily do so to knock a company they dislike. This means the wrong conclusions are reached and people worry for no reason, ending up spending a lot of cash replacing when there may be no need for it.

If this was a general property of Mayday sleeves for whatever reason it would be apparent by now and widely reported. Hopefully the mystery will be resolved sooner or later.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.