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Subject: Unreleased EON aliens rss

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Erik Twice
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I have tried to look for a list of all original aliens that haven't been remade by FGG but I haven't had any luck. Since I'm sure this has been asked before, could someone give me a link or otherwise help?

On a similar topic, the only power that is not in EON or FGG was a promotional one that had the power of more power. Is this correct?

Thanks!
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Chris O
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Laser - (Replaced by Magician)
Crystal
Magnet
Skeptic
Worm
Diplomat
Judge
Assessor
Aura
Demon
Doppelganger
Mesmer
Silencer
Wrack - (Replaced by Mite)
Shark
Zilch
Negator
Witch
Boomerang - (Replaced by Invader)
Delegator
Aristocrat

And all the Lucre powers
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Ken H.
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Not sure about those "replacements". I know it's the conventional wisdom, but I'd still hope to see (at least) Boomerang and Laser someday.
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Erik Twice
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Messianic wrote:
Laser - (Replaced by Magician)
Crystal
Magnet
Skeptic
Worm
Diplomat
Judge
Assessor
Aura
Demon
Doppelganger
Mesmer
Silencer
Wrack - (Replaced by Mite)
Shark
Zilch
Negator
Witch
Boomerang - (Replaced by Invader)
Delegator
Aristocrat

And all the Lucre powers


Thanks, tough Schizoid is also missing here. Was Insect reprinted too? I read it lead to many rules disputes, tough given it just copies good timing rules should do away with them.

I also read that some Lucre powers were remade so they don't use Lucre anymore. Which ones are those?


Rubric wrote:
Not sure about those "replacements". I know it's the conventional wisdom, but I'd still hope to see (at least) Boomerang and Laser someday.

Have to say Boomerang looks far more fun than Invader. Simpler, more direct, not broken. Wonder why they changed it. Same with Mite.


I'm finding CE story and design fascinating. Like in Magic, it's fun to consider why each power worked or how they affected the game. And there's nothing more fun than trying to fix broken or useless powers without runing them!
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Erik Twice
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I just discovered a full list here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/697608/how-would-you-rate-th...

Thanks!
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Jefferson Krogh
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Schizoid is coming in Cosmic Alliance, which is just a few weeks away.

Insect may have been replaced by Plant in this edition.

I loved Wrack, but I think Mite is a bit more direct and to the point. When facing Wrack, nobody ever caved after the first punishment. It was always lose three ships or give in. Mite does the same thing with less fuss.
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Ken H.
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General_Norris wrote:
Have to say Boomerang looks far more fun than Invader. Simpler, more direct, not broken. Wonder why they changed it. Same with Mite.


I agree. Boomerang may cause some timing problems (possible infinite challenges vs. Insect). FFG likes to circle around these type of problems, rather than solve them, so that could be why they went with Invader instead.

However, my point was really that they aren't changed. The old powers still exist and are able to be republished. The new powers are just that -- new powers.

I could be wrong, though. Has there been any official announcement that these powers are replacements?
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Jefferson Krogh
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Rubric wrote:
General_Norris wrote:
Have to say Boomerang looks far more fun than Invader. Simpler, more direct, not broken. Wonder why they changed it. Same with Mite.


I agree. Boomerang may cause some timing problems (possible infinite challenges vs. Insect). FFG likes to circle around these type of problems, rather than solve them, so that could be why they went with Invader instead.

However, my point was really that they aren't changed. The old powers still exist and are able to be republished. The new powers are just that -- new powers.

I could be wrong, though. Has there been any official announcement that these powers are replacements?


I read somewhere (on BGG, I think) that Kevin Wilson hated Laser and that Magician was its replacement. Aside from that, the other "replacements" are just us speculating. Mite for Wrack seems really obvious, though.
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Erik Twice
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Schizoid is coming in Cosmic Alliance, which is just a few weeks away.

Holy crap, that's great! I love how they are going to throw it completely "unfixed".

Quote:
Insect may have been replaced by Plant in this edition.

Well, both were originall EON aliens so perhaps both will coexist, they seem to play differently.

Quote:
I loved Wrack, but I think Mite is a bit more direct and to the point. When facing Wrack, nobody ever caved after the first punishment. It was always lose three ships or give in. Mite does the same thing with less fuss.

Yeah, it looks quite like it in practise. Wonder how you could make it work thematically.


Why does everyone hate Laser? It looks quite tame.
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Jefferson Krogh
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I don't hate Laser. I just heard that Kevin Wilson did.
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Erik Twice
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
I don't hate Laser. I just heard that Kevin Wilson did.

Oh, yes. But I dunno, I have seen several people saying they don't like it too much, and I don't see why.
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Here's the list:

Aristocrat
Assessor
Aura
Boomerang
Butler
Crystal
Delegator
Demon
Diplomat
Doppelganger
Dragon
Extortionist
Force
Hurtz
Insect
Judge
Lloyd
Laser
Magnet
Mesmer
Negator
Pirate
Schizoid
Silencer
Skeptic
Witch
Worm
Wrack

None of the new powers "replace" any of the old ones, except for Shadow, which replaces Assassin. We already know that Schizoid will be in CA, and many of these others could be, too.

Yes, some of the new powers are similar to Eon ones that haven't been published by FFG yet. Invader is similar to Boomerang. Mite is a little less similar to Wrack. Magician is even less similar to Laser.

But so what? We already have plenty of powers that are similar to each other. Chosen is similar to Deuce. Industrialist is similar to Warrior. Guerilla is similar to Vacuum. Fodder is similar to Reserve. Glutton is similar to Remora. Ghoul is similar to Mercenary. etc. And many of these are far more similar to each other than the so-called "replacements" above.

And in case you're interested, here are the aliens that were originally published in the Mayfair edition that haven't yet been published in FFG:

Anomaly
Berserker
Busybody
Connoisseur
Entrepreneur
Ghost
Gnome
Gorgon
Grief
Obverse
Pavlov
Pentaform
Phantom
Prolong
Queue
Serpent
Sting
Subversive
Vampire
Wraith
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mar hawkman
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I've tried Boomerang.... you get extra encounters, but only as long as you don't lose on defense 3 times. and your power does nothing as offense or bystander, only when you're defense. I'd rather play machine any day. it's just not interesting to play as IMO.
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Just a Bill
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General_Norris wrote:
Oh, yes. But I dunno, I have seen several people saying they don't like [Laser] too much, and I don't see why.

In my case, it's not fun to play against because it removes all choice. Many other powers can screw with your encounter card selection/revelation (Visionary, Sorcerer, Mirror, Loser, Warhawk...) but do not rob you of the ability to make decisions. Laser makes it so you might as well shuffle and stack your encounter cards and go to the kitchen to make a pizza.

It's also not exactly a big benefit to its owner, depending on your play style. If you enjoy blind randomness in outcomes with no need for thought, that's one thing; but if you actually enjoy the challenge of trying to predict what your opponent might play, then being Laser isn't that much fun either.
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The Compulsive Completist
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Here's the list:

Aristocrat
Assessor
Aura
Boomerang
Butler
Crystal
Delegator
Demon
Diplomat
Doppelganger
Dragon
Extortionist
Force
Hurtz
Insect
Judge
Lloyd
Laser
Magnet
Mesmer
Negator
Pirate
Schizoid
Silencer
Skeptic
Witch
Worm
Wrack

None of the new powers "replace" any of the old ones, except for Shadow, which replaces Assassin. We already know that Schizoid will be in CA, and many of these others could be, too.

Yes, some of the new powers are similar to Eon ones that haven't been published by FFG yet. Invader is similar to Boomerang. Mite is a little less similar to Wrack. Magician is even less similar to Laser.

But so what? We already have plenty of powers that are similar to each other. Chosen is similar to Deuce. Industrialist is similar to Warrior. Guerilla is similar to Vacuum. Fodder is similar to Reserve. Glutton is similar to Remora. Ghoul is similar to Mercenary. etc. And many of these are far more similar to each other than the so-called "replacements" above.

And in case you're interested, here are the aliens that were originally published in the Mayfair edition that haven't yet been published in FFG:

Anomaly
Berserker
Busybody
Connoisseur
Entrepreneur
Ghost
Gnome
Gorgon
Grief
Obverse
Pavlov
Pentaform
Phantom
Prolong
Queue
Serpent
Sting
Subversive
Vampire
Wraith


That's about 50 aliens. How many expansions do we have left?
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Jefferson Krogh
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Oh, including Cosmic Alliance? The original plan was for two more after this one, according to Peter Olotka. Of course, if we keep buying them, they will probably keep making them.

That being said, I wouldn't expect all of the old aliens to reappear in this edition. A bunch were for Lucre only, and Lucre shows zero signs of ever returning, sadly. Others were just not up to snuff (which ones depends on who you ask).
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The Compulsive Completist
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Of course, if we keep buying them, they will probably keep making them.

I'll keep buying, for sure, even when they only have three worthwhile aliens in the bunch and the ship color is coral. I don't see a future publisher touching this edition of CE in my lifetime,
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Jack Reda
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At least one lucre alien was de-lucrefied, and I bet others could be as well.
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Chris O
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Many of the unreleased powers are really good.

There are a bunch I believe to be sub-par (mostly lucre powers), but the vast majority still offers unique and intense game play.

As far as I know, Cosmic Alliance will likely have 8-10 classic powers, of which we know Gorgon and Schizoid. We also know the 4th expansion will follow suit with another 8-10 classic powers.

The 5th expansion which is the "fan expansion" seems to be home-brews only, and unless FFG decides to close out their 5 expansion contract with a big box set bang, I doubt most of these very worthy classics will see the light of day.

It would be great for a 50 power final expansion with 25 classics and 25 home-brews though. One can hope right?
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Just a Bill
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Messianic wrote:
The 5th expansion which is the "fan expansion" seems to be home-brews only

Hmm, I hope that's not the case. It needs more diversity than that.

Messianic wrote:
It would be great for a 50 power final expansion with 25 classics and 25 home-brews though. One can hope right?

I wouldn't mind it if the final set were a fully playable base game with warp, gate, 5 new colors, the basic cards ... the whole shebang. Thus FFG's CE universe would have two different "entry points"; those of us who want both would have backups for our central components; we could mix the decks for truly crazy Mayfair-esque gameplay; and there would be two different SKUs for new players, so when one is out of print the other is theoretically still available.

That's probably not exactly feasible, but maybe it could be FFG's version of "Simply Cosmic", with new colors for 4 players, 20 to 40 aliens, no variant cards, and slightly reduced-size gate and warp, to fit in the expansion-box footprint. Imagine it being like the expansion boxes, but twice as thick. (Super-portable!)
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Roberta Yang
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Bill Martinson wrote:
Hmm, I hope that's not the case. It needs more diversity than that.

Agreed, especially considering that the specific homebrews in question really do not excite me at all. We have "I add ten Attack 40's to the deck", "I am strictly superior to about five existing powers", "I kingmake everyone", and a new rule to allow Peter to not even bother actually writing powers in a way that makes them work properly. If we don't at least get some good classics to make up for this nonsense, I'll definitely be skipping that expansion.
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Just a Bill
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From what I've seen so far, the only thing I want is Angler. The Order could perhaps fit in with more work; I don't want to play it but I can see that it could still "belong", like others I never play but that still help define Cosmic Encounter. Everything else feels incomplete/anti-thematic/awkward.

I guess I just want something different than what the leadership wants. Maybe this expansion will be like the final episode of Lost. Some will will say "wow, that blew my mind" while others will say "WTC ... why did I invest so much time in this?" Although that's an undesirable outcome for me, it may be what they are shooting for. It generates a lot of water-cooler discussion (writers and designers love that), but I wonder if it sells as many DVDs.
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Chris O
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So far with the aliens that have been discussed Angler is the only one that really excites me. Order is doable and I can see it working well, I'd just need to see it in action.

There are a bunch of other home-brews that have been thrown around that I'd like to see discussed like Viper, Nightmare, Bill's Gith remake, Fracture/Portal, Ascetic/Martian, Explorer, Velcro/Paneteer, Bushwhacker, Clown, etc.

Imo there's been too much talk on "how to break the game" instead of getting a good beta list of powers completed first before moving onto actual variant additions.
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Ken H.
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salty53 wrote:
and a new rule to allow Peter to not even bother actually writing powers in a way that makes them work properly.


I haven't been following it. What is this new rule?
 
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Roberta Yang
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Forgot about the Angler. Yeah, that one at least is a cool power.

The Order is one of those concepts that sounds cool in theory, but absolutely no part of any of the several revisions it went through looked even remotely appealing to me, and I'm having trouble picturing what an actual well-designed final version could look like.

Rubric wrote:
I haven't been following it. What is this new rule?

The "Cosmic Qualifier" rule is that rules conflicts are to be decided by a majority vote, with ties going to the offense. Peter explicitly wants this rule to make it easier to design new powers without making sure they actually work alongside old powers without leading to rules conflicts (because apparently even posting something for Bill Martinson to fix is too much effort?) and because he likes the idea of the rules of the game varying depending on what is currently advantageous to each player. He now seems keen on having aliens based entirely on this new rule be made... and so far nothing seems to have come of it despite a full month being spent on the subject.
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