Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

The Ares Project» Forums » Rules

Subject: Kahoum upgradable buildings: exact cost to upgrade and use? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Eric O. LEBIGOT
France
Versailles
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If a Kahoum upgradable building, let's say Ember (2 powers to build), has 3 units on it, the rules indicate that 2+3=5 powers must be spent (2 as the "normal cost to power the building", 3 for the units). Is the building powered, after the upgrade? I'm not sure about this, because of the working "normal cost to power the building", which may be interpreted as meaning that paying this cost powers the building.

I would guess that the upgrade costs 5 and that the building is not powered, after that: in fact, I would be surprised that paying only 2+0 powers on an Ember with no units on it would both (1) upgrade the building and (2) power it. In fact, only powering the building costs 2 powers, so upgrading+powering the building for 2 powers seems too cheap (that's a free upgrade). Is this correct?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Fung
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I play that powering the building leaves it powered for the whole combat. Therefore 2+3 would upgrade 3 units and allow them to fight. The next battle, only 2 power is needed for that force to fight.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric O. LEBIGOT
France
Versailles
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fusag wrote:
I play that powering the building leaves it powered for the whole combat. Therefore 2+3 would upgrade 3 units and allow them to fight. The next battle, only 2 power is needed for that force to fight.
Thank you for your input. Do you think, then, that paying 3 power simply upgrades the units but does not allow them to fight? in other words, do you think that the "normal cost to power the building" goes only towards powering it, so that the powering could be optional?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoffrey Engelstein
United States
Bridgewater
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
Pit Crew avaialble now! The Expanse coming in October!
badge
Ludology Host and Dice Tower Contributor
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The building itself has to be powered before you can upgrade.

And you can 'upgrade' the building any time it is powered - whether there are units on it or not. So if there are no units you can pay your two power and upgrade.

However, remember that the new units will then cost two resources instead of one. Plus, you can always play the card onto the upgraded side right out of your hand. It doesn't have to start on the 'basic' side. But then you will again have to pay two resources per unit.

Geoff
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoffrey Engelstein
United States
Bridgewater
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
Pit Crew avaialble now! The Expanse coming in October!
badge
Ludology Host and Dice Tower Contributor
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry - missed another part of your question.

If the building is powered, it is available for both upgrade and to fight. If you have three units on the building and pay five to power the building and rotate it you can fight with it right away.

Geoff
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moisés Solé
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK, Say I have 4 resources on the building.

Can I end with 4 Flames by spending 6 power?
Can I end with 2 Flames by spending 2 power?
Can I end with 3 Flames by spending 4 power?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoffrey Engelstein
United States
Bridgewater
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
Pit Crew avaialble now! The Expanse coming in October!
badge
Ludology Host and Dice Tower Contributor
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
referee wrote:
OK, Say I have 4 resources on the building.

Can I end with 4 Flames by spending 6 power?
Can I end with 2 Flames by spending 2 power?
Can I end with 3 Flames by spending 4 power?


I assume the building starts Construction on the Ember side.

The below is not correct - please see posts below.

If you power the building you MUST convert resources to units. No holding back. So:

1. You put two power on the building.

2. The four resources instantly convert to four Embers

3. You can spend four more power to upgrade to Flames if you like.

So either 2 power/4 embers or 6 power/4 flames. There is not choice of creating or not creating units.


Geoff
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
engelstein wrote:
referee wrote:
OK, Say I have 4 resources on the building.

Can I end with 4 Flames by spending 6 power?
Can I end with 2 Flames by spending 2 power?
Can I end with 3 Flames by spending 4 power?


I assume the building starts Construction on the Ember side.

If you power the building you MUST convert resources to units. No holding back. So:

1. You put two power on the building.

2. The four resources instantly convert to four Embers

3. You can spend four more power to upgrade to Flames if you like.

So either 2 power/4 embers or 6 power/4 flames. There is not choice of creating or not creating units.

Geoff


Geoff - was reading over the Kahoum rules and saw "the building can be upgraded either before or after resources on it are turned into unit tokens".

So, you could build 4 Embers first and then spend 6 power to get 4 Flames. Or you could spend 2 power to power/upgrade the building, and then build 2 Flames for the same 4 resources. Right? (Guessing you might do that if you've got the resources there, but not enough power to upgrade them all.)

I think the other part of the question was, can you spend 2 resources to get 2 Embers, then upgrade the building by spending 4 power, then spend the other 2 resources to get another Flame, thus spending 4 power to get 3 Flames. I think by a strict reading, no - it says you can upgrade before or after spending resources, but not that you can spend resource both before and after upgrading, but I'm not sure if that's the way it's supposed to be read.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moisés Solé
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, Chris explained my question much better.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoffrey Engelstein
United States
Bridgewater
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
Pit Crew avaialble now! The Expanse coming in October!
badge
Ludology Host and Dice Tower Contributor
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
referee wrote:
Yeah, Chris explained my question much better.


Sigh... First rule of answering rules questions is to actually read the damn rules.

You are correct - you can upgrade the building before or after you convert the resources, but not in the middle. If you have four resources on Embers you could:

Use 6 power to get 4 Flames if you upgrade after you convert the resources

Use 2 power to get 2 Flames if you upgrade before you convert the resources.

You can not (mainly for sanity's sake, not for any overriding play balance reason) convert two resources to embers, then upgrade the building and convert the final to resources to a flame. (which would give you 3 units for 4 power)

Geoff
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moisés Solé
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great, that's what I surmised.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.