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Subject: Master Europa... Where to begin? rss

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Eric Lai
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Just got my hands wet again with a game of Narvik last week and really looking forward to playing more Europa.

Just wondering if anyone out there have played with the Alternate Europa rules: Master Europa? I am planning to try them out for the first time on Their Finest Hour and was wondering if anyone have any play experience and advice?

I noticed there are master europa modules for updating air and sea components of Europa, I was wondering if these are worth the trouble. They sure add a lot of counters to the game... like the game needs more counters!

How about the Red Army module? 6000 counters???? WTHell....

Reading the Western Module: Blitzkreig Master Europa rules has been interesting and they seem to make good sense and have great designer notes. But I am unsure how it will play.
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Hunga Dunga
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Alternate Europa rules?
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Eric Lai
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Yes, alternative... I refer you to this webpage: http://www.mastereuropa.com/main.htm

(Alternative is a rather relative term, given the amount of refinement the system went through over the years...)
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daniel d
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Tom is working on a complete new game system similar in scale to Europa

see http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?13@979.wHD2ccrJ9Jf.4@.1dcfd...

he still produces the Master Europa stuff, much of it is extra supply rules, updated OOB and counters.
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Robert Wesley
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I happened to notice that he isn't covering neither the "Spanish Civil War" nor "Africa Orientale" within that system. Is there something about either for this? What about the 'Aircraft' and 'Naval Vessels' counters, as did they obtain some 'silhouette'/overhead display feature now?
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Eric Lai
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I am very reluctant to try out the modules like the Air and Naval modules that have tonnes of non-die cut counters... I don't fancy playing with thousands of poorly cut cardboard DIY type counters!! They had die cut counters going for awhile, but an explosion?! occurred in their workshop... Maybe an errant B-17?

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Edmond
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I posted some of the information on Master Europa.

They had die-cut counters but some disagreement between partners led to losing this possibilty.
However it seems Tom Johnson, as read on Consiworld, is planning to get a die-cut machine.
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Lawrence Hung
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Wait, I get confused. What is Master Europa in terms of the original Europa system? What is Alternate Europa? Does Total War belong to the original, Master or Alternative Europa? What is it about the new Tom's design of a complete new game system when the link to Consimworld is talking about Master Europa?
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daniel d
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Total war by HMS is a continuation of the Europa line going way back to DNO. It "supposedly" will be out soon and "probably" will be compatible with previous games.

Tom Johnsons website Master Europa is the place form which he sells his add-ons for the existing games (Fire in the east etc), I believe they are back to being die cut now. These add ons include various modules for east front, west front, air war, naval war, new Russian OO B.

Finally Tom is also working on, and confusingly his consim forum is called Master Europa again, a DIFFERENT WW2 system at the same scale but with new rules and maps and counters. So we are talking about 3 different things here despite the same names. Clear as mud!
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Edmond
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Original Europa system games were published by GDW then GRD and later on HMS/GRD.
"Total war" is to be published by HMS/GRD (see their website). Publication has been delayed for years and has generated much discussion.
Look at Europa series wiki page for full series history.

Tom Johnson, a long time playtester of the series, decided to publish some variants called "Master Europa" adding logistics and other elements to the original series. These variants cover all original Europa games and are listed on his "Master Europa" website.
The extra counters were DTP then at one moment he had die-cut. Now those counters are DTP again but he is willing to produce die-cut in the future.

The Europa series is now out of print and HMS/GRD are slow to answer to demands. So Tom Johnson decided with his experience to publish his own series. He claims to be working on it hard (see Consimworld) but no game has been published yet.

In conclusion, Tom Johnson has published "Master Europa" which is to improve the original Europa series.
He is now working on a new series close in scale and scope to the original.

Clear ?
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Wolfgang Kunz
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I have the Europa Series of games. When you start with Fire in the East the rules stay simple and the game is playable. Now, some companies and games later, look at the rules of Second Front

IMHO just bloated (you see this especially well with the 1st WW rules).

The Master Europa rules allow you to get the same set of rules for all of the games - from a Case white & Fire in the East to a Second Front. You just leave out the rules you don't need like f. ex. Amphibious Landing. And the rules are way not as bloated as the Europa rules became in their late stage of the games.

I would have encouraged everyone to try them out but after Tom had problems with some of the same people the "Total war" guys had problem with I don't know how the situation is right now.

Eric, I would encourage you to get the rules but wait with the Russians. First look at the quality of the Supply counters that come with some of the Gamettes then decide if you will shill the money out. A buddy of me bought them and even when he did not regret it (but I should say that he has money enough not to look at it) he called the quality semi-prof.
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Robert Wesley
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There is 'precisely' what I'm talking upon as regarded the 'Aircraft'-counterart for these:
From: Blitzkrieg

Now, since the 'counters' are 1/2-inch square, then I wouldn't bother on having COLOR imagery, as the details are too tiny and small for making them out decently, as it were. It may appear "good enough" here to gaze upon these, while upon the GAME itself and several feet/meter further away at this, then you should understand WHY those aren't sufficient, or were 'superfluous' in much too many instances.

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Edmond
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The counters displayed above come from other games published by "Diffraction entertainment".

It has no link to Master Europa or Tom Johnson. It is another project inspired by Europa.
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Robert Wesley
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Well, yes that were, while I wanted to point out HOW the "Europa"-types should appear as being "Like" them, with theirs.

Here is my own:



They simply depict what that shall comprise as such regarding some 'feature' or 'Unit', along with a numerical 'rating' or "die-roll" through a D10, of which they have to garner, or less than this. You are gazing upon how that will appear at close-up, or when viewed at some lengthier appearance. We also have to take into account that with the much larger "Europa" layout with plenty lain about, then you do require something more easily being seen, as well to discern those.
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Duncan Maclean
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Tom's first game in his new system is out. It's an introductory module covering the campaign in Sicily 1943. It has die-cut counters, an innovative plastic hex-map and fairly short rules. The game is called "Auspicious Beginning" and is available direct from Tom. His website is still under construction but contact him direct at tangoj@mastereuropa.com or join the Yahoo Group at OCMS_GPW-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

This is not MASTER EUROPA but a completely new system at a similar scale to Europa. Attached is a sample of some of the German counters.

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Tom Johnson
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I was just advised this thread existed, and having read it, figured I should comment.

Master Europa is a variant system requiring the ownership of the various Europa games to make best use of. The base rules system and charts are simply replaced.

Master also has moved 'beyond' the existing Europa system in that it has a full naval and strategic air war system in place. more information can be seen at: WWW.MASTEREUROPA.COM

--

I have indeed decided that there is a limited future available remaining tied to the system. Master will continue to be supported and sold, but the main efforts here have been focused into a new system independent of any other company. As Duncan says, the first of these has been released ("Auspicious Beginning"), and work continues to get the rest of the games planned out the door.

One feature of the new series is that the large maps (4 x 8 feet) will be printed in one piece on a banner material that allows the map to be 'rolled out' for play, and stored rolled up in its shipping tube. It will have longer life times as its water and tear resistant.

Tom J
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J.L. Robert
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berthier wrote:
Total war by HMS is a continuation of the Europa line going way back to DNO. It "supposedly" will be out soon and "probably" will be compatible with previous games.


You're new here, aren't ya?

Total War = Total Wait

whistle
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