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Wiz-War (eighth edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Counter spells rss

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Mateusz Dobrowolski
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Hello
We played the game a few times yesterday for the first time. We had a lot of fun with it Rules are really well put. We were only unsure how exactly counter spells works. Maybe someone experienced with the game can help with some answers.

a) neutral spells can be countered, yes?

b) Absorb spell
- you can with it:
counter neutral spell being cast
counter attacking magic spell being cast
- you can't with it:
counter throw
counter pounch
- can you:
cast it to cancel spell which was already cast and lies in the play area of one
of the players?

Thank you for help in advance
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N Camp
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I'll tell you when it ships to the US
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Sebastian Grawan
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Still no news when it'll hit Germany... but when I'm able to help, I will!
 
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Tom Jolly
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You nailed it pretty well. Any spell, neutral, attack, counter, being cast can be cancelled and absorbed as it is cast. It doesn't work on continuing spells that have previously been cast. That is, you need to use it as a response to the other spell being cast, when it is cast.

Tom

MataDorPL wrote:
Hello
We played the game a few times yesterday for the first time. We had a lot of fun with it Rules are really well put. We were only unsure how exactly counter spells works. Maybe someone experienced with the game can help with some answers.

a) neutral spells can be countered, yes?

b) Absorb spell
- you can with it:
counter neutral spell being cast
counter attacking magic spell being cast
- you can't with it:
counter throw
counter pounch
- can you:
cast it to cancel spell which was already cast and lies in the play area of one
of the players?

Thank you for help in advance
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Johannes Sjolte
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MataDorPL wrote:
a) neutral spells can be countered, yes?

Yes, unless the cards says otherwise. Excample: Flood has the text "When attacked, you may cast this as a counter", so you coundn't use that in response to a neutral spell.

Quote:
b) Absorb spell
- you can with it:
counter neutral spell being cast
counter attacking magic spell being cast

Yes, and yes - Absorb spell reads "Cancel 1 target spell being cast ..."

Quote:
- you can't with it:
counter throw
counter pounch

You are correct - only spells being cast as it says in the text on the card
Quote:
- can you:
cast it to cancel spell which was already cast and lies in the play area of one
of the players?

No, still only spells being cast

Hope this helps
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Johannes Sjolte
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Does anyone know how "Wall of earth" works?

How long does it last? Just to counter a spell or action or the rest of the round.

Can you use it to counter another Wizard trying to move in a specific direction?
 
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Mateusz Dobrowolski
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Thank you for help, all clear now
 
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Kristoffer Simonsson
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Another counter spell Q: If i throw a Lightning bolt at another wizard and he uses Pain Link against me can I use a Full Shield to cancel the damage from the Pain Link?
 
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Tom Jolly
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Solosolo wrote:
Another counter spell Q: If i throw a Lightning bolt at another wizard and he uses Pain Link against me can I use a Full Shield to cancel the damage from the Pain Link?


Technically, Pain Link targets the caster of pain link - notice that the range icon indicates that the spell targets the caster. Full Shield only works against spells targeting the user of Full Shield, so in this case it would not protect you.

Tom Jolly
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Tom Jolly
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Zalco wrote:
Does anyone know how "Wall of earth" works?

How long does it last? Just to counter a spell or action or the rest of the round.

Can you use it to counter another Wizard trying to move in a specific direction?


Wall of Earth is an instant, and only lasts long enough to block the LOS attack spell that it was used against. It can't block another Wizard's movement.

Tom Jolly
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Johannes Sjolte
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Cavetroll wrote:
Zalco wrote:
Does anyone know how "Wall of earth" works?

How long does it last? Just to counter a spell or action or the rest of the round.

Can you use it to counter another Wizard trying to move in a specific direction?


Wall of Earth is an instant, and only lasts long enough to block the LOS attack spell that it was used against. It can't block another Wizard's movement.

Tom Jolly

Okay, thanks
 
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rock lobster
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Cavetroll wrote:

Wall of Earth is an instant, and only lasts long enough to block the LOS attack spell that it was used against. It can't block another Wizard's movement.

Tom Jolly


but... but... can WoE block THROWN/PUNCH attacks? these seem to fall somewhere between Spell and Movement.
 
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Daniel
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Can I counter items?

Thanks!
 
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Steve McClure
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The counter spells pretty well describe their triggers in their descriptions. Often those triggers are attacks but some are rather generic.

I don't have the base game handy, but an example from malefic curses is

Quote:
Counter curse: cancel incoming attack spell targeting you.
So it only triggers on attack spells that target you Directly. Not on spells that target a square or wall that might still harm you.

I'd guess that absorb spell would work to counter an item being summoned, but most counters would not. You'd have to review the specific counter description and the rule book regarding items. I'd say that unless it is prohibited by rule a counter spell would work IF the trigger is activated. I don't think there are many workable options that will get it done.

 
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Daniel
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Thank you!

An item is magic card but not a spell, am I right?
A counter which refers to a spell don't work for an item?!?!
 
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Steve McClure
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Gynson wrote:
Thank you!

An item is magic card but not a spell, am I right?
A counter which refers to a spell don't work for an item?!?!


Based on my reading of the book. When you play the item card, you are casting "it". Presumably you are casting a spell to summon the item.

I haven't found this directly in the rule book, but after spending a bit of time looking at the rule book and cards that is how I'm going to look at it. Item cards have the "Permanent" spell duration icon, and the description of the permanent duration says "While the spell lasts, the caster must maintain it". That isn't very concrete on its own, but I think it is relevant. This is buoyed by the description on the Brainstone card, that reads "The first time you cast or acquire Brainstone...".

To me this means that I would rule that Absorb Spell could be used in response to an item card. Dispel would also work to "end" an item's permanent duration.

I would also rule that a player couldn't remove an item from play by ceasing to "maintain" it. The section on maintained spells reads
Quote:
The active player may end a maintained spell at any point
during his turn, regardless of its duration.
and the description of permanent spells reads
Quote:
The caster may end the spell or drop the item at any time during his turn, at which point the spell is discarded from play or the item is dropped.
I only mention this because I could see a player preferring to remove an item from play rather than drop it on the ground where an opponent could later use it. This point could be argued either way, but I like difficult choices and allowing a player to simply dispose of an item in this manner makes it too easy on them.



 
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Tylor Lilley
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This is wrong. Items are not spells. Items are played and not cast. So you can't use most counters against them, like Dispel or Negate Neutral, that target spells or trigger when something is cast. This information is all in the official rulebook.

For a much longer rebuttal with citations please see my similar response in this thread here.

Daniel has it perfectly correct here:

Gynason wrote:
An item is magic card but not a spell, am I right?
A counter which refers to a spell don't work for an item?!?!


Items are magic cards and can be countered, but they are not a spell and they are not cast. You could play shield when someone throws a dagger at you but you can't cast Full Shield on that same dagger.

Thank you.
 
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Tylor Lilley
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EDIT: And since I'm here, my take on this:

rainofwalrus wrote:
Cavetroll wrote:

Wall of Earth is an instant, and only lasts long enough to block the LOS attack spell that it was used against. It can't block another Wizard's movement.

Tom Jolly


but... but... can WoE block THROWN/PUNCH attacks? these seem to fall somewhere between Spell and Movement.


Wall of Earth clearly states two things:

Card Text wrote:
The wall blocks 1 attack that hits it

And
Card Text wrote:
it blocks both LOS and movement.


And the rules state this for throwing:
Official Rules wrote:
An object can only be thrown if its corresponding Magic
card specifically says that it can. If possible, a thrown
object lands in the same square as its target. If a barrier
(such as a wall) is in the way,
or if the target fills the entire
square, the object lands in the square in front of the barrier
or target after striking it.


Thus since the wall "blocks 1 attack that hits it" and the thrown object "lands in front of the barrier after striking (hitting) it", we see that WoE will block a thrown object - if it can intersect that objects trajectory. In other words, if I'm in the same space as my target, WoE does nothing. Most other times it should work though.

As for punching we know it must be done to an adjacent target or one in your square. Clearly it cannot be used to help if I am in the same space as my target, in a similar case to the above. But what about when my target is adjacent? The rules say this about adjacent targeting:

Official Rules wrote:
Adjacent: The wizard may play this card only on a target that is in the same square as himself or an adjacent square
(even diagonally adjacent). The target must also be within
the wizard’s line of sight.


So since the WoE says "it blocks both LOS and movement" and to punch an adjacent target you "must be within the wizard's LOS", we see that it can block a punch as well.

The rules for Wiz-war are actually very well put together for such an "anything can happen" type of game. In 99.9% of situations there is a clear answer to questions like these, despite all the zaniness. That's how you know you have a good game!
 
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Steve McClure
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I responded to the item vs counter spell bit in the referenced thread. I'm not 100% with you, but I totally see you reasoning. Your way is quite a bit simpler in application, so may win out in my gaming circle after discussion.

Fwiw I think you are spot on with regard to wall of earth.
 
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