RJ Kuligowski
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I have had several conversations lately about roll & move as a mechanic. I currently have a game that incorporates this type of mechanic, although for craps and giggles we call it "die locational combat movement" but that is just fluff. Do I yield and alter the mechanic and allow players a set movement, or do I scream to the winds... "I love die movement, and I will make you like it too!"

Thoughts?
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Joachim Pehl
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Usually I hate it. But soemtimes it works great. for example Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game, where it just fits the theme.
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Matt Davis
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Roll and Move as a mechanic is fine, it's just that it can be used poorly.If players have meaningful decisions to make or some sort of way to alter their dice or their chances of rolling what they need, then I typically have no problem with it.
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I think there are some cool roll and move games out there, two I like are Battleball and VeloCity. The important thing it to be creative with it and offer the player choices with the roll.
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One Armed Bandit
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Roll and move that you have influence over is fine, assuming it fits the theme.

Formula D and Powerboats do this very well.

In games where racing is an element and you have no control (Pachisi, Snakes and Ladders, etc) it's an absolute game breaker.

It works in Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game and absolutely fails in Clue(do)
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Andrew Walters
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I think this is like asking whether or not blue is a good color in a painting. Blue could be an important part of a very nice painting. It can also be found in really crummy paintings. Some people might prefer blue paintings, all other things being equal, while some people may be put off by blue paintings, generally speaking. It's baby-with-the-bathwater, cart-before-the-horse to begin the evaluation of a painting by asking whether or not it incorporates a lot of blue.

Elefant Hunt - components can be found around the web and printed for a nifty little game. Roll and move is central, and it works perfectly.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Game is just a great game.

Barbarossa shows roll-and-move can win Speil De Jahres.

Formula D shows you can build a very popular game line around roll-and-move.
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Andrew Walters
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I'll just add that in the miniatures rules The Sword and the Flame and its many scions you roll to see how far each unit of troops can move, and this uncertainty adds a lot to the game. Sometimes I wonder why any tactical game gives you fixed movement for your units. Sure it's simpler, but it makes some things calculable that should be dramatic. Can your charge reach the enemy before they reload and get another shot off?
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Ben Pinchback
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Personally I don't like it, but that's just because I've never seen it done well, Formula D included. But, lots of other people love Formula D so there's definitely a market.
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Ivan Pawle
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I think the last time I played a game with roll & move was 221B Baker Street: The Master Detective Game, a few months ago and eventually we ended up just allowing each player to move up to 6 spaces on their turn.
A game where you roll 1, move one space and then your turn is over can get dull quite quickly.

As people have already said, if you can make decisions, do something other than just roll & move or influence the outcome of the roll then it can be fine.

I've had plenty of fun playing Talisman, even though the choices are generally move left or move right (and I know I'll probably be drawing the same event card either way!)
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Matt Davis
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Powerboats is a great example of thematic and interesting roll-and-move.
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Wade Nelson
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I like Roll & Move in Battleball, but I like it even better with Mr Bistro's advanced rules for the game. With the advanced rules you can roll and move up to the die max (e.g. 20 for a D20) or move half the value without a roll (e.g. 10 for a D20). The roll is a risk you take, but if you need a certain amount of movement it may be obtainable.

I also like Roll & Move in Talisman (third edition) because I don't take the game very seriously. It's a fun fantasy romp, and I don't fell burnt if I lose because of the die rolls.

The only time I really don't like Roll & Move is when it makes a game take too long for what the game provides. As much as I like Trivial Pursuit, I don't like when the game takes an extra 45 minutes because people are bouncing around the spaces surrounding their last wedge.
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Bradley Eng-Kohn
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The problems I have with roll and move stem from the usual way in which it is used. In this thread people have named some great games that use it, but I normally associate it with Chutes and Ladders or The Game of Life or even Monopoly.

As a general rule, when I feel I have no control, I dislike the game. When I have more control, I can enjoy myself. Roll and move games tend towards the former.
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Jonathan Tullsen
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Mitchell
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There is no bad mechanic, only bad ways to use a mechanic.
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Sturv Tafvherd
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CopperAgeStudios wrote:
I have had several conversations lately about roll & move as a mechanic. ...
Thoughts?


I absolutely hate roll-and-move in games like Chutes and Ladders.

I mildly tolerate it in Clue

andreww wrote:

I'll just add that in the miniatures rules The Sword and the Flame and its many scions you roll to see how far each unit of troops can move, and this uncertainty adds a lot to the game.


I have to agree with that!


Now ... here's a twist: How about using the kind of dice in Runebound (Second Edition) ... that's roll-and-move too ... but a whole lot more interesting!
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Justin Hawkins
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tech7 wrote:
Usually I hate it. But soemtimes it works great. for example Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game, where it just fits the theme.


bengkohn wrote:
The problems I have with roll and move stem from the usual way in which it is used. In this thread people have named some great games that use it, but I normally associate it with Chutes and Ladders or The Game of Life or even Monopoly.

As a general rule, when I feel I have no control, I dislike the game. When I have more control, I can enjoy myself. Roll and move games tend towards the former.


Butterbob wrote:
There is no bad mechanic, only bad ways to use a mechanic.


These things. All of them.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Titan

Can't believe it's taken this long! Love it or hate it, this is a game with meaningful decisions, has a good following, and roll-and-move is the core of the gameplay.
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M *
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It's been said many ways, but "roll and move" is just using a random element in regards to an element in the game. You always have control over how random you want it to seem to the players.

I feel like "roll and move" has gotten a bad rap. Players denounce it on one hand, whie praising the random elements of, lets say, deck building games. It's all about manipulating and anticipating probability, and how much that effects the players ability to win. Examples!

Monopoly, no control, roll and move without control of dirrection, not really linked to strategy but the dice easily determine the winner.

Last Night on Earth, You control elements to influence movement within a parameter, grid setting gives you a selection of destinations, location determine the sorts of threats you'll face, but other elements determine your ability to overcome those challenges.

Dice aren't anymore evil than random tiles or cards.
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Mitchell
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theauthorm wrote:


Dice aren't anymore ARE MORE evil than random tiles or cards.


Fixed that for you . Dice don't have a "memory" cards and tiles do.
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Ethan Larson
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BagpipeDan wrote:
Titan

Can't believe it's taken this long! Love it or hate it, this is a game with meaningful decisions, has a good following, and roll-and-move is the core of the gameplay.


Agreed.
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David Boeren
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palmerkun wrote:
Roll and move that you have influence over is fine, assuming it fits the theme.


I'd tentatively agree with this. You need to have influence. In Monopoly, you roll and move with no choices. In Last Night on Earth you roll, but you can move less than full movement and you control the direction. In Formula D you control the gearing, you can pick your route to fudge it a bit, and adjust up or down a little for a cost. It's because of this ability to influence the movement that they make sense. Formula D fits the theme pretty well. Last Night on Earth I think could still be improved by being a little more consistent (1-6 is too broad a range IMHO), but I can see that it would require a cost of either an added mechanic or a custom die. It's acceptable, for the type and weight of game that it is, but I might not accept it in a more strategic game.
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James Hutchings
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Firstly, are you making a game for people on boardgamegeek, or for people who play Monopoly, or for some other group?

Secondly, I think people on boardgamegeek have a problem with roll and move without any other mechanism to give players meaningful choices, not with roll and move as such.
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Jesse Fuchs
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Magical Athlete is an interesting counterexample, as the roll-and-move part itself has few choices, but is still fun and interesting because it's the result of choices made in the drafting phase, as well as being juiced by some pinball/Fluxx rules-interaction bounciness.

This lopsided structure—not totally unlike that of Space Alert, where the division between making choices and seeing them play out is even more stark—has potential: before I ever saw this game I was working on a game (for trad dice, cards, and chips) called Fortuna, which shared this structure in an even more blatant way: the first two-thirds of a festival/round involved strategy and choices, which led to you ending up with between 1 and 5 dice. Then everyone just had a totally random dice-off: everyone rolls one die, anything but the highest number goes away, rinse, repeat. I never got the skill part of the game working to my satisfaction, but it was decent enough that people felt like their choices had an effect on how many dice they ended up with—and I always surprised at how much people seemed to just love that end phase. Dice, man.
 
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Chris Sessoms
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Talisman is one of my favorite games, and its Roll and Move.
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RJ Kuligowski
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First, awesome feedback... absolutely what I was looking for! From what I am reading, it's the mechanics associated around the roll & move that determine it's need or desire as a part of the game. I realize that for some, the mere idea of R&M will never be their cup of *insert favorite beverage here* For others, the choices associated with said roll is the determining factor. Thanks to all for their thoughts.

The more I am on this site, the more I see that meaningful discussion can take place. I love that this site seems to have a minimal amount of trolling or devolving into politics or race. :-) (I.e. any comment sections on any news article I have read online in the last year)

Thanks again, and hopefully you will see our game soon and see a R&M game that you can throw out there the next time someone posts a question like this! whistle
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