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Subject: Toy and Game Expo Queens Birthday Long Weekend rss

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Charles Bishop
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Hi all,

Some of you may be aware that the Australian Games Expo which was conducted in conjuction with Cancon for 2011 and 2010 and prior to that in Albury Wodonga is coming to Sydney on the Queens Birthday Long Weekend (9-11 June). We will be running the Expo as the 'Toy and Game Expo' at the Sydney Show Grounds at Homebush.

All of the information is at www.toyandgameexpo.com.au. You can also follow us on twitter and facebook - both under toy and game expo.

Our vision is to provide a family opportunity to experience the fun.

The reasons for the move are many but to summarise:
* We want to develop a public Expo rather than a Convention
* We think toys and board games make a nice synergy
* The time of year is more conducive to board gaming
* We can have scaleable space to let it grow

We will be running the national tournaments for Carcassonne, Settlers, Dominion and (hopefully) Ticket to Ride). There will also be workshops for games designers (supported by Board Games Australia) and a Teachers workshop.

We are looking for volunteers to help us with operating various stalls and operations through the weekend so contact us at fun@toyandgameexpo.com.au.

Lastly I have met a number of you personally and you will know we are very approachable so I look forward to discussing this. You can either reply here, private message me or send an email to the above account.

Have Fun,

Charles
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Andrew Swan
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OK, we *have* to have a maths trade that completes on this weekend!
 
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Paul Bradley
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game_boy wrote:
OK, we *have* to have a maths trade that completes on this weekend!


Do you mean a TAGE no-ship maths trade? In the past, a maths trade has been arranged to coincide around BorderCon, which is on the same weekend.
 
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Steve McIlhatton
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Any clues as to how much it will cost to attend?
 
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Charles Bishop
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Entry fees will be announced shortly on the website but we are looking at the following per day.

$40 for a family pre-purchase(two adults and 3 kids up to 18)
$60 for a family on the day

$15 Adult pre-purchase (over 18)
$25 Adult on the day

Kids 5-18 $10

Kids under 4 free

$40 for national championship tournaments which includes entry to the Expo for the day as well as tournament fees.

Numbers are always funny for public shows but we we will cap daily sales at 4,000 people at this stage.


 
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Charles Bishop
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Sorry should also mention we have a principle of not charging for anything once you have entered other than if you want food (run by showgrounds) or to buy some toys or games for yourself.
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Gregor McNish
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batcut wrote:
game_boy wrote:
OK, we *have* to have a maths trade that completes on this weekend!


Do you mean a TAGE no-ship maths trade? In the past, a maths trade has been arranged to coincide around BorderCon, which is on the same weekend.


And a math trade to coincide with BorderCon will no doubt be arranged again.
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Paul Bradley
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gmcnish wrote:
batcut wrote:
game_boy wrote:
OK, we *have* to have a maths trade that completes on this weekend!


Do you mean a TAGE no-ship maths trade? In the past, a maths trade has been arranged to coincide around BorderCon, which is on the same weekend.


And a math trade to coincide with BorderCon will no doubt be arranged again.


It will be interesting to see what develops. The more Maths Trades we have, the more chances of trading away games on my trade list.
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Paul Bradley
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Clownarama wrote:
Entry fees will be announced shortly on the website but we are looking at the following per day.

$40 for a family pre-purchase(two adults and 3 kids up to 18)
$60 for a family on the day

$15 Adult pre-purchase (over 18)
$25 Adult on the day

Kids 5-18 $10

Kids under 4 free

$40 for national championship tournaments which includes entry to the Expo for the day as well as tournament fees.

Numbers are always funny for public shows but we we will cap daily sales at 4,000 people at this stage.




Hi Charles,

Not meaning to be rude, but what do you get for the entry fee?

Clownarama wrote:
Sorry should also mention we have a principle of not charging for anything once you have entered other than if you want food (run by showgrounds) or to buy some toys or games for yourself.

Odd.
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Solomon M. Green
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batcut wrote:
gmcnish wrote:
batcut wrote:
game_boy wrote:
OK, we *have* to have a maths trade that completes on this weekend!

Do you mean a TAGE no-ship maths trade? In the past, a maths trade has been arranged to coincide around BorderCon, which is on the same weekend.

And a math trade to coincide with BorderCon will no doubt be arranged again.

It will be interesting to see what develops. The more Maths Trades we have, the more chances of trading away games on my trade list.

And the winner is..... BorderCon for Maths Trade I suspect. Can't see any reason to change that.
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Gerald Squelart
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Moose_Head wrote:
batcut wrote:
gmcnish wrote:
batcut wrote:
game_boy wrote:
OK, we *have* to have a maths trade that completes on this weekend!
Do you mean a TAGE no-ship maths trade? In the past, a maths trade has been arranged to coincide around BorderCon, which is on the same weekend.
And a math trade to coincide with BorderCon will no doubt be arranged again.
It will be interesting to see what develops. The more Maths Trades we have, the more chances of trading away games on my trade list.
And the winner is..... BorderCon for Maths Trade I suspect. Can't see any reason to change that.
Bordercon will probably see more of the gamers involved in the mid-year Maths Trade, but I'm sure some traders will be interested in going through Sydney instead. More options for cheaper shipping should be good for everybody in the end!
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Gregor McNish
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Well it would be silly to have 2 math trades at the same time. Would be great if we could arrange muleage between Sydney and BorderCon.
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Charles Bishop
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batcut wrote:
Clownarama wrote:
Entry fees will be announced shortly on the website but we are looking at the following per day.

$40 for a family pre-purchase(two adults and 3 kids up to 18)
$60 for a family on the day

$15 Adult pre-purchase (over 18)
$25 Adult on the day

Kids 5-18 $10

Kids under 4 free

$40 for national championship tournaments which includes entry to the Expo for the day as well as tournament fees.

Numbers are always funny for public shows but we we will cap daily sales at 4,000 people at this stage.




Hi Charles,

Not meaning to be rude, but what do you get for the entry fee?

Clownarama wrote:
Sorry should also mention we have a principle of not charging for anything once you have entered other than if you want food (run by showgrounds) or to buy some toys or games for yourself.

Odd.


Hi Paul,

Not rude at all - fair question. Just to clear up my 2nd point - I have been to a number of things where you are asked to pay at the door and then when you get in you have to pay to do things - my worst experience was a winter theme with a $50 entry and then $5 per ride for everything when you went in.

The idea is that the public can go to an expo and experience hands on a range of products. We are currently in discussion with a range of vendors so I cant say definitively what will be there yet but for example discussions include:
1. Facilitated Games Library with over 120 Euro and family games
2. We have proposals in with Queen Games, Rio Grande, Mayfair, Wattsalpoag, Treefrog games and Stratamax for booths to experience their Euro games at.
2. A playdough pit with free playdough and the latest playdough machines (I know probably not a big seller on BGG but for those with young kids...)
3. We are working on a Nerf run through range with Dart Tag (velcro) and also potentially a mobile laser tag.
4. Bunyip games are looking at conducting a Playmobil hands on exhibition for boys and girls.
5. 93 made games are running national championships for Viewpoint and will be demoing viewpoint.
6. We have had enquiries to run Subbeto tournaments.
7. We are talking to manufacturers about a Jigsaw pit where you can have kids and adults jigsaws including the new 3d jigsaws.
8. We would like to have interactive displays of minatures such as Blood bowl and War Hammer where public could play a 5 minute battle/game to get an idea of what the game would entail.
9. We will have a giant chess set and hopefully a simul demonstration that the public can be involved in.
10 Hobbyco will be running Gundam building workshops in which you build a model and take it home with you.
11. Retailers with reduced prices for the expo.

It is still early days but the first year is always difficult. Some of the above may not come off so I wont guarantee them. As we get closer to the date we will be able to confirm one the website under http://www.toyandgameexpo.com.au/index.php/whats-on the exact details of activities.

Hope this helps to get a feel of what we are looking to achieve.

Thanks,

Charles
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Andrew Swan
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The words "jigsaw" and "pit" in the same sentence give me the shudders! surprise
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Patrick Brennan
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Clownarama wrote:
2. We have proposals in with Queen Games, Rio Grande, Mayfair, Wattsalpoag, Treefrog games and Stratamax for booths to experience their Euro games at.

Not Z-man? They've been manning up the last few years. Not this year?
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Charles Bishop
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PBrennan wrote:
Clownarama wrote:
2. We have proposals in with Queen Games, Rio Grande, Mayfair, Wattsalpoag, Treefrog games and Stratamax for booths to experience their Euro games at.

Not Z-man? They've been manning up the last few years. Not this year?


Hi, there are a range of other vendors who we are proposing an overseas trader model where we share risk with them to demo their games. We met with them in Essen and a proposal will be going shortly. Zed is to be included in them.

Anyone else who has contacts to a games distributor feel free to drop us a line and we can contact them.

thanks,

Charles
 
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Gregor McNish
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Bunyip was new to me at cancon, but the playmobil range they had out to play with got lots of attention over the weekend. Great prices on games too.
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Jenny Nguyen
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I agree, Bunyip games had a fantastic range of Playmobil products, and was a pleasant surprise addition to Cancon. Their Sylvanian Families range was also way above and beyond any other stockist I've seen in Australia. I thought I had budgeted appropriately for the con up until I spotted this guy's stall!
 
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Jaime Lawrence
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Clownarama wrote:
Entry fees will be announced shortly on the website but we are looking at the following per day.

$40 for a family pre-purchase(two adults and 3 kids up to 18)
$60 for a family on the day

$15 Adult pre-purchase (over 18)
$25 Adult on the day

Kids 5-18 $10

Kids under 4 free

$40 for national championship tournaments which includes entry to the Expo for the day as well as tournament fees.

Numbers are always funny for public shows but we we will cap daily sales at 4,000 people at this stage.


Would there be some sort of discount rate for those intending to attend all weekend?
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Patrick Brennan
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To me, $15 or $25 seems high. I was expecting $10, similar to the Cancon library charge. It's not like this is a car expo where they're flying in limited edition Lamborghinis specially for the expo. It's toys and games, the stuff they sell common place in stores. If I was a curious non-gamer and heard those prices, I'd be saying man, I can wander around Toy 'R Us for free, why would I pay $60 for my family?

With it being the first show, isn't a big crowd more important in the first year, and then raise prices a bit in the next year when word of mouth has a chance to spread and previous year's attendees know what value they're getting for the entry fee?

I'd buy a weekend pass at $20 maybe, but otherwise I'd be in for a day only at these rates (and that just to help support your first year and satisfy curiousity), and I can guarantee my friends in my gaming groups, who are largely non-BGG, would be thinking whether it would be worthwhile going at all (especially when you factor in all-day parking fees).

You want evangelists for this event, not nay-sayers, and I think the current pricing is an issue that will lead to the latter more than the former.
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Julian Clarke
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I think that there is little conflict here for the Maths Trade. It completes a couple of weeks before BorderCon AND AGE (as they are on the same weekend), so we should be able to increase the number of trades which are postage free provided we know somene going to each.

Unhalfbricking will be at BorderCon as always, as I had to choose.

Julian
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Charles Bishop
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PBrennan wrote:
To me, $15 or $25 seems high. I was expecting $10, similar to the Cancon library charge. It's not like this is a car expo where they're flying in limited edition Lamborghinis specially for the expo. It's toys and games, the stuff they sell common place in stores. If I was a curious non-gamer and heard those prices, I'd be saying man, I can wander around Toy 'R Us for free, why would I pay $60 for my family?

With it being the first show, isn't a big crowd more important in the first year, and then raise prices a bit in the next year when word of mouth has a chance to spread and previous year's attendees know what value they're getting for the entry fee?

I'd buy a weekend pass at $20 maybe, but otherwise I'd be in for a day only at these rates (and that just to help support your first year and satisfy curiousity), and I can guarantee my friends in my gaming groups, who are largely non-BGG, would be thinking whether it would be worthwhile going at all (especially when you factor in all-day parking fees).

You want evangelists for this event, not nay-sayers, and I think the current pricing is an issue that will lead to the latter more than the former.


Patrick,

Thanks for your response. We realise that ticket pricing is an important issue for people. We surveyed a number of people in Sydney and they all thought the pricing was reasonable indeed some of the families said it was very good. You are right it is more expensive than the Cancon Games Library.

I acknowledge your point about Toys R Us but all you can do in stores is wander around the stores looking at boxes - you cant touch or interact with the products. You dont know if you will enjoy it until you play with it. That is our goal.

We chose Homebush because there are very few large venues (over 2500sqm) in Sydney and it is central, has car parking but also has the train station 50m from the venue so people can choose if they want to drive or train to the venue.

The weekend pass we considered but it complicates ticketing significantly. We are likely to look at this in future years. There is also a gap between the prepayment and on the day as it is alot more logistically complicated managing tickets and money on the day.

Of course the easy way for someone to get free entry and car parking is to volunteer http://www.toyandgameexpo.com.au/index.php/volunteers to help us for a 3 hours slot (get the rest of day in expo) or for a day (get free entry for a family for the weekend).

Thanks,

Charles
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Germain
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Prices look good to me. $15 for preorder is less than the cost of a movie, and $25 is about the same price as a 3D movie at the cinemas.
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Patrick Brennan
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Last year's AGE was free for each of 3 days. Revenue stream came via the booths, not from attendance fees. Compared to what we in the hobby have been able to enjoy in the past, it's expensive. I'm also sure it will dissuade people from coming along for the full 3 days, which has been the expectation and experience that AGE has provided in the past. It turns it into a 1 day and done affair, if that.

Especially if mainstream companies like Z-man are not going to be there. Are Milsims coming? Unhalfbricking isn't. If not, Games Paradise has no online retailers to compare to and will be charging full retail, so it'll be unlikely there'll be bargains to be had, and another reason for going along to AGE (the bargains) has disappeared.
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Charles Bishop
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PBrennan wrote:
Last year's AGE was free for each of 3 days. Revenue stream came via the booths, not from attendance fees. Compared to what we in the hobby have been able to enjoy in the past, it's expensive. I'm also sure it will dissuade people from coming along for the full 3 days, which has been the expectation and experience that AGE has provided in the past. It turns it into a 1 day and done affair, if that.

Especially if mainstream companies like Z-man are not going to be there. Are Milsims coming? Unhalfbricking isn't. If not, Games Paradise has no online retailers to compare to and will be charging full retail, so it'll be unlikely there'll be bargains to be had, and another reason for going along to AGE (the bargains) has disappeared.


Hi Patrick,

Thanks for your comments. Firstly to keep up to date on who is coming as we get confirmations over the next four months you can follow us at either face book or twitter @toyandgameexpo.

I agree, it may be that a group of our potential attendees will decide $15 for eight hours entertainment is too much and will not attend.

However if the Expo is to grow and be an Expo (not just a 10-15 booth add-on to Cancon) we needed to make the changes we have made. The cost for entry has allowed us to move to Sydney and to keep booth prices the same for exhibitors. A number of the exhibitors are not retailers or only sell one or two games so they make little or no money for the weekend therefore we need to keep their rates reasonable. To give you an idea, talking to other companies who exhibit at Sydney Expos where entry to the public is free they are charged $2000-$5000 per 3X3 booth - our cost is $745.

I am not sure where your comment that mainstream companies including Z-Man won't be there came from. We met most of the major companies at Essen last year (our second trip). As per my post on 31 Jan there are a series of proposals already out there (Rio, Mayfair, Queen etc)and we are releasing further proposals under a different business model (remote trader - to my understanding unique in the world) to smaller companies we visited including Zed, Eggert Speil etc). They have all indicated that they are strongly interested in the remote trader model but we won't put them up on the website until they say yes.

The remote trader business model we are offering the smaller firms who can't make the trip to Australia is that we will provide staff and a booth at no cost to them. They will ship 20-30 copies of each of three of their latest games over to Australia (total 80-100 games). We will demo them for the weekend and sell them direct to the public at discounted rates. We will then split losses and profits equally between ourselves and the company. This way they get a low risk method of demonstrating their games in a country that is expensive and time consuming to fly to. This has been seen very positively by them and will hopefully allow us to attract more diverse and smaller overseas manufacturers and distributors to exhibit here.

Julian (unhalfbricking) has decided to support Bordercon and I am glad of that. Neil Thompson has done a great job there and having a retailer there will help ensure it continues strong. Julian is keen to support our Victorian Carcassonne, Settlers and Ticket to Ride state championship tournaments in 2013 when we return to Melbourne again.

I am also not sure where your comments about prices being full retail price come from. We have just had Good Games signup and Games Paradise have indicated they will be utilising a discounted sales price for the expo (including coupons from their catalogue). We will also be selling discounted price games from the remote traders and Mind Games Canberra and Seropeco have indicated they may be attending.

Retailers are also aware that people can buy online (from another retailer on their smart phones as they stand at the first retailers store) so they have to be competitive. They also understand that people come to Expos expecting to get reduced prices.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Charles
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