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Vietnam 1965-1975» Forums » Rules

Subject: Moving Stacks and "dropping off units" rss

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Randy Knight
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The rules allow you to move in stacks.

The rules declare that the moving stack pays the movement point costs of the more expensive (ie; most prohibitive) type of unit based on the terrain.

So if I'm moving a stack along the roads (start on a road and end on a road), and the stack has a US Mech unit (movement points available 10) and also a US foot unit (movement points available 8)…

They move as a stack perhaps six movement points, drop off the foot unit on the road, and then the mech unit continues moving along the road.

Does the mech unit, after the foot unit is dropped off, have a movement available of 4 movement points remaining, or two movement points remaining.

It is no longer in a stack, so it will now only pay 1/2 movement point per road hex entered, rather than the 1 movement point per road hex that was required when moving in a stack with the foot unit. Now that he composition of the "stack" has changed, what would the movement points remaining to the mech unit be?

Thanks,
Randy
 
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Mark Evans
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My opinion:

The mechanized unit is no longer moving as a stack and now has 4 movement points remaining.

I agree the rules are not clear.
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Randy Knight
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Thanks Mark for the opinion.

That's the way we'll play it then. It makes sense to me to read the moving stack rules as "moment by moment" limitations based on the current stack composition. That's basically what was unclear to me.

Looking forward to continuing Pegusus Bridge and Vietnam this weekend, and hanging out. Been reading a lot on Vietnam this week, some of which I'll share with you while we're playing.

Randy
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Dale Morrell
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May be a long dead post but ...

The rules are quite clear that a stack has movement points equal to the lowest MP unit and expends MP at the highest cost per hex. Drop offs don't bring MP back.
 
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Mark Evans
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Hi Dale,

There is no such thing as a dead post with me and Randy on the job.

To the question. I am not sure the rules are so cut and dried on this topic. Can you quote the rule that makes you think that Randy and I have erred?
 
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Curt Chambers

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I'm resurecting this old thread because I had a related question.

First, I believe Randy's original question should be answered that the entire stack has the lowest MP of any unit in the stack, even after dropping off said units. The rules state that all units in a stack assume the lowest rate in the stack. Nothing talks about restoring the unit's original rate later on in the move.

I do believe, however, that as units are dropped off a different MP terrain cost may be charged to the remaining stack depending on its composition.

My follow-up question deals with stack movement and reaction move. I have always played that reaction is not taken until the stack has completed movement. Units dropped off are in essence still moving until the entire stack is done. Then all units adjacent to any stack units may take reaction move. The Security Op rules support this way of interpreting it.

So how do others play? React as units are dropped off or react when the stack has completed movement?
 
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Mark Evans
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Raindem wrote:
First, I believe Randy's original question should be answered that the entire stack has the lowest MP of any unit in the stack, even after dropping off said units. The rules state that all units in a stack assume the lowest rate in the stack. Nothing talks about restoring the unit's original rate later on in the move.


That is the way we are playing now.
 
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Mark Evans
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Raindem wrote:
React as units are dropped off or react when the stack has completed movement?


Randy and I are playing right now as I write this. We talked about this and came to the conclusion that it would be as units are dropped off. We see the Security Operation as a special circumstance laid out in the rules.
 
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Mark Evans
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I just looked at my FAQ compendium and the question was asked and answered the same way on comsimworld about 10 years ago.
 
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Curt Chambers

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drmark64 wrote:
I just looked at my FAQ compendium and the question was asked and answered the same way on comsimworld about 10 years ago.


Who answered it? The stack movement rules state that units may be "left behind" as the rest of the stack moves on. I see that as distinctly different than a unit "completing" its move, as required to trigger reaction.
 
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Mark Evans
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It was answered by Randy Stone. He is by no means an authority any more than I am.
 
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Curt Chambers

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Which goes for me as well.

I was just asking because if it came from one of the Victory Games folks then the subject is closed as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise a little more discussion wouldn't hurt.


 
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Bob A

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I feel the answer is already covered in the rules under the alert and reaction movement sections.

Alert is specifically mentioned to occur after *all* phasing units have moved, whereas reaction states that it occurs when "an enemy unit ends its movement adjacent to a friendly unit which is not participating in the operation (either as an operating unit or a target unit)" and "[r]eaction movement must be taken immediately after the triggering unit(s) has completed its movement, even when an operation is still in progress."

Dropped off units have completed their movement, even while in the middle of an operation, so reaction must take place immediately, unless they are target units of course.

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Curt Chambers

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mrboba1 wrote:
...Dropped off units have completed their movement...


That's the part I disagree with. Here's the rule:

"Units may be left behind while the rest of the stack moves on, but they may not resume movement later".

Resume - begin to do or pursue (something) again after a pause or interruption.

That implies that the left behind unit(s) have not "completed" their move. They are merely pausing in place while the rest of the stack continues.
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Bob A

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lol - I can see your point, but in stating they *may not resume* their movement, I read it as there is not actually that pause to resume from.

IMO, they are stating (with less than full clarity, I suppose) that "nope, they are done moving at that point, so you can't go back to them and move again."
 
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Curt Chambers

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Oh I agree completely. There's no question of them actually moving again. I was just wondering at what point during the stack's movement were left behind units considered to have "completed" this movement, for reaction purposes only.

I wouldn't even be questioning this if it weren't for the Security Op rules which specify that units can be dropped off from the operating stack, but reaction is not taken until the stack has completed movement. Perhaps they did that to allow artillery to stop prior to entering a target hex without causing a reaction from the intended road-hex target.

Anyway, I'm fine doing it as everyone has suggested. Just wanted to explore it further.
 
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