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1) when you can't place a room anywhere on the board, you may use an explore action to take the top card and put it at the bottom of the deck. If the second room is placeable by one of your characters, are you REQUIRED to place that room.

2)I presume the hive may ONLY be placed horizontally if there are no other legal placements anywhere on the board

3)If you chuck a grenade into a room, you may NOT trade in that room the first time you enter that room. Per other discussion threads, you may trade if you exit and reenter room however.

4) If I enter a team search room and there is another character in that room am I REQUIRED to do a team search? Or may I just do a solo search if I feel like it (obviously I'm limited to a solo search if I an attack another character in the room)

5) Just to be stupidly clear about computer room. Each player in their individual player turn may activate the computer terminal ONCE. That player (not character) may only do one action (camera explore, heat scan, or security door). If the first player in a round uses the computer terminal in their first turn, they may use it again in their second turn of the round. In this case "turn" refers to player turn, not to the "turn structure"

Thanks!
 
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David Ausloos
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Re: assorted rules questions
1) No action is "required".

2) Yes. As the other placement rules state: you must always place a tile following legal placement if possible.
Mind you, a situation were the hive needs to be placed horizontally is VERY rare.

3) Correct.

4) Yes, as like the run room the option is "optional".

5) Correct.
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Re: assorted rules questions
Okay, my two cents to this.

1. I am very confused about your answer here, David. Let me explain why, step by step:
- the player wants to take an Exploration action
- the Room card on top of the deck cannot legally be placed anywhere
- the player takes the Room card and puts it under the deck
...as I understand it, this (placing the card under the deck) is ONLY possible during an exploration action...
- the Room card on top of the deck is placable now
- the player can decide if he places the Room card now, or refrains from this (your answer)

Basically, that would mean that you need to pay an action to recycle (to use an Innovation term) a Room card IF it cannot be placed!
And then you can decide whether to place the new Room or not.
Placement of a Room after recycling is an optional free action...

...just to put it in game mechanic speak...


I was always under the impression that, once a player chooses to recycle, he has to use what he gets (if possible).
But then, there is the follow-up question:
What if it is still not possible to place the room? Can he recycle again? And does he have to pay an additional action for that?

Most of this is just nitpicking, I know. However, it is important to know whether placing a room after recycling is mandatory, or optional, and how to define the recycling then...


2. I just ran through possibilities, and came up with a situation (which is very unlikely, but possible), where the Hive cannot be placed vertically, and - if placed horizontally - would violate the rule of connecting doors. Basically, you would have to place the Hive horizontally AND ignore another door. My guess is, since (for the game to work) a Hive HAS to be placed, this would be legal in such highly unlikely circumstances.

3. Okay, another thing that I was not clear about. This means if you cause damage to any character in a room, trading in this room afterwards (for the first time and in the same turn, of course) is not only prevented, but is not possible AT ALL???
So if I throw said grenade into an adjacent room, and WANT to trade in there, I am not ALLOWED? Also, if I want to shoot someone in an adjacent room (with a scope), when I next enter this room in the same turn, I CANNOT trade with another player, even if I want to? So trading and causing damage is, per definitionem, MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE???
 
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Re: assorted rules questions
David, thanks for the quick response!
 
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Re: assorted rules questions
Dumon wrote:

3. Okay, another thing that I was not clear about. This means if you cause damage to any character in a room, trading in this room afterwards (for the first time and in the same turn, of course) is not only prevented, but is not possible AT ALL???
So if I throw said grenade into an adjacent room, and WANT to trade in there, I am not ALLOWED? Also, if I want to shoot someone in an adjacent room (with a scope), when I next enter this room in the same turn, I CANNOT trade with another player, even if I want to? So trading and causing damage is, per definitionem, MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE???


You can trade with someone you just damaged.
1. Grenade/shoot with scope 2. Enter Room, no trade 3. Exit room 4. Reenter Room - forced trade.

Note that this is similar to another sequence
1.+2. Enter and immediately attack, no trade 3. Exit room 4. Reenter Room - forced trade.

It seems to me our meeples have a very short memory, but they do have a memory.
 
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Re: assorted rules questions
That sequence is correct.
 
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Re: assorted rules questions
Okay.
That basically means that causing damage and SUBSEQUENT trading IS mutually exclusive. That I can reenter and then trade I actually knew...


So that one was answered.
Although I do not understand what "sequence" you refer to, David. I am guessing you mean the one aaargh_ink described.


But what about my other two questions???
 
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Re: assorted rules questions
Dumon wrote:

Basically, that would mean that you need to pay an action to recycle (to use an Innovation term) a Room card IF it cannot be placed!
And then you can decide whether to place the new Room or not.
Placement of a Room after recycling is an optional free action...


No, that is not correct.
You haven't explored, so actually haven't spend the 1AP in order to do so.
So basically if a player choses not to explore (cycling through the deck is NOT exploring) he has not yet spent the AP and thus still has it available for other use.
 
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Re: assorted rules questions
So basically any player could just take the card and place it under the deck during his turn if it cannot be placed legally?
...and while you're at it, please answer the other two questions, too...
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Re: assorted rules questions
Okay, I make it easy, and repeat the three questions in a concise way:

1. ANY player can "recycle" the top card of the Room Deck (if it can not be legally placed ANYWHERE on the table) during his turn, whether he wants to explore or not. This does not cost an action...
...correct?

2. If there is NO OTHER OPTION, placing the Hive card may defy any rules of placement (other than "its door must be connected to another door")...
..correct?

3. If you attack another player in a room (with grenade, gun, rifle, knife), this action prohibits SUBSEQUENT trade in this room (when entered for the first time). No damage has to be caused - it is the attack that counts...
...correct?
 
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Dumon wrote:
Okay, I make it easy, and repeat the three questions in a concise way:

1. ANY player can "recycle" the top card of the Room Deck (if it can not be legally placed ANYWHERE on the table) during his turn, whether he wants to explore or not. This does not cost an action...
...correct?

2. If there is NO OTHER OPTION, placing the Hive card may defy any rules of placement (other than "its door must be connected to another door")...
..correct?

3. If you attack another player in a room (with grenade, gun, rifle, knife), this action prohibits SUBSEQUENT trade in this room (when entered for the first time). No damage has to be caused - it is the attack that counts...
...correct?


1) correct
2) correct
3) correct

This was easy
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Superb.
Thanks for the answer.

Although I have to admit that I will, for sake of easier explanation and memorizing, probably not apply the "attack" rule when NOT attacking after entering a room (in case of grenade, rifle or "gun with scope" attack)...
 
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I have just reread parts of the rulebook (V. 2.2) - something that I should do more often, as tidbits will be forgotten or become warped over time.

While doing this I came upon the trade/attack rules phrasing, as well as the rules on exploration and card recycling.

And because of these I have to say that, on the one hand, some questions I posed became answered instantly. But, on the other hand, some things David said here DIRECTLY CONTRADICT what is written in the rules. Which means that either David's statements are incorrect (slip of memory, or somesuch mishap) or the rules are incorrect, and have to be rewritten...
...once again.

So here goes:

1. Concerning the Exploration Action:
Quote:
"If no legal placement exists for the exploration card anywhere on the board, the player [the one who chose the exploration action] may discard the current Exploration Card to the bottom of the deck and attempt to place the next card without paying any additional AP (he has already paid 1 AP to take the explore action). However, the player may only do this once per turn. If the second Exploration Card is also unplayable from the player's current location he will have to attempt a different action or end his turn."
Quote taken from p. 6; emphasis in bold or underlined and explanation in square brackets from me.


This unshakably states that the player has to choose the explore action FIRST, pays the action point for it and only THEN is able to recycle the top card (if unplaceable). The next card on top of the Exploration Card deck is the one he may place (optional). If he does not want to, or (again) cannot (i.e. it is again unplaceable), he can choose another action. However, the AP has already been spent. So it actually IS more of a "use what you get" situation. Yes, you do not HAVE to place the room. But then you just spent an AP for recycling.

Which, in turn, means that my above statement was correct - in case of an unplaceable room you pay 1 AP for recycling, with an OPTIONAL room placement afterwards! Not to toot my own horn, here, but still...



2. Regarding Forced Trades:
Quote:
"Each time a character enters a location with other player's team members [...] he MUST either attack another player's character or trade 1 item face down with another player's character, unless he has already performed a trade in this room during the turn [the character, that is]."
Quote taken from p. 10; Emphasis in bold and underlined mine, as well as explanation or omission in square brackets.



This is actually the first sentence of the whole paragraph. And it states quite clearly that the trigger for trading is entering (we knew that) and can only be prevented by THEN attacking another player. The wording of the phrase allows no other explanation. It does not matter if a character attacks BEFORE entering - it is UPON entering (or, to put it in action sequence, directly AFTER entering).
So throwing a grenade in a room or using scope or rifle to target someone in the room does NOT prevent a subsequent trade. This can also be explained thematically - the people in the room in question did not see who the sniper was, or who threw the grenade...
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1) Good call.
I had to check the V2.2 rules before answering.
In all honesty, it almost never happened the last 30 or so sessions that a room could not be placed, so I mistakingly suggested no AP was spend.
So indeed, the statement is correct that a player has lost an AP cycling once.

2) Actually, the whole scope/grenade/sniper riffle trading block situation is making the game unneedlessly complex. Again, this is something I have seen rarely used, but I agree that it should be simplified, and I support the idea to simply stick with the basic rule that the "entering of the room" is the crucial factor. This avoids all sorts of confusion.

All this is a constant reminder for me that open ended systems, despite their simple rules, can spawn complex situations when things start interacting.
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I agree with you 100% that such situations are very rare. But as we immerse ourselves ever deeper into a game, our minds wander to endless possibilities of...
*drones on*

Seriously, thanks for that statement. It was always my impression that a game like PS should be as streamlined regarding rules as possible. Or any game, in fact. Tiny exceptions from rules in specific circumstances tend to be forgotten, anyway, and such games tend to get bogged down by rules-lawyering...


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