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Subject: 2D gamepieces vs 3D miniatures rss

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Tony Gullotti
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First, you're not going to compete with D&D or Paizo or WizKids, not unless you make it. So, don't look at it as "can I compete with the big guys" just ask yourself if the price you set, and the quality you have is in-line with the industry.

Two dimension figures like onemonk.com could look great and fit in really well into your whole concept. Or you may feel you have to have the miniatures, in which case, it will cost much more.

EDIT:

I personally like the concept, don't mind 2D, and from the picture you've put up think it could work. I'd move to a telescopic game box for production.
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D 4te
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LoreChase wrote:
First, you're not going to compete with D&D or Paizo or WizKids, not unless you make it. So, don't look at it as "can I compete with the big guys" just ask yourself if the price you set, and the quality you have is in-line with the industry.

Two dimension figures like onemonk.com could look great and fit in really well into your whole concept. Or you may feel you have to have the miniatures, in which case, it will cost much more.

EDIT:

I personally like the concept, don't mind 2D, and from the picture you've put up think it could work. I'd move to a telescopic game box for production.

Cool...hmmm. onemonk.com?....telescopic box? Where does that fit in? Can you clarify?
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James Hutchings
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I think 2d stand-up figures would be fine, especially since comics are themselves 2d.
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Nate K
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I actually think that 2D is on the rise. The major players in minis can only afford to release miniatures that they know will do well, which leaves a lot of niche markets open. How many dinosaurs minatures are there? Cowboys? Sailing vessels of various ages? Heck, even superheroes? 2D paper minis are cheaper to produce and cheaper to acquire, allowing them to fill these niche markets that have little to no support from 3D miniature companies.
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Paul Nowak
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The human race, to which so many of my readers belong, has been playing at children's games from the beginning, and will probably do it till the end, which is a nuisance for the few people who grow up. - GKC
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Consider that you will pay $6,000 to 20,000 for each mold for each miniature in your game.

2D with good art can indeed look good.



Or you can do what Fantasy Flight has done with Arkham Horror - the game ships with 2D standups, but you can buy deluxe minis to enhance your game separately.
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Jason
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comiccrisis wrote:
I just hear a lot of people saying things about 2D being obsolete.


Perhaps these people need to look up the definition of obsolete.

Personally, I think 2D stand-ups fit great with your theme and would result in a better overall aesthetic than 3D minis.
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D 4te
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overtheboard wrote:
Consider that you will pay $6,000 to 20,000 for each mold for each miniature in your game.

2D with good art can indeed look good.



Or you can do what Fantasy Flight has done with Arkham Horror - the game ships with 2D standups, but you can buy deluxe minis to enhance your game separately.


This game looks cool to me. I think with miniatures you wouldnt be able to see the characters unless you were close up on the table. Mos def shows up better in pictures as a 2D.


Minis are good for certain games, though. My game is a throwback so I will end up pushing for 2D characters to keep the look of the board unique from all the other 3D RPGs.
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James Hutchings
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You could make speech bubbles and sound effects that act as markers (to indicate that a character is stunned etc).
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Levi Mote
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We went with 2D stand-ups for Kaiju City. The fact of the matter is that custom 3d models are just out of reach for all but the most prolific publishers with established overseas manufacturing contacts.

Thematically, 2D stand-ups seem to fit your theme really well and as long as the art quality is really strong, I don't think you should have any problems marketing the game.

Best of Luck!

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/118311/kaiju-city
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B-Rom
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overtheboard wrote:
Consider that you will pay $6,000 to 20,000 for each mold for each miniature in your game.


Hmmmm...

While I'm not denying (and tortured in my workshop daily) that bringing miniatures into a boardgame is ridiculously exorbitant... I think there are far too many variables associated with production costs to throw out a number like this. Also this spread is pretty wide... kind of like saying it will be between $1 and $1,000,000.

I'm just saying Whizkids has not spent $24,000,000 on molds, let alone $80,000,000... and this guy http://www.gangfightgames.com/gang-leaders/ did not spend 6K on a mold nor does he plan to do so every 3 months to support his self published rpg rule book. Though highly successful LNOE[url] http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29368/last-night-on-e...[/url] has not invested "millions" into their minis.

Again, don't get me wrong, it will most certainly and most sadly be the most expensive component of your game. I'm just saying I personally wouldn't let those quoted numbers be the final nail in your coffin if you were even slightly on the fence - without getting some first hand quotes that take your specific situation into account.

As far as 2D vs 3D... man I know how I feel when I crack into a game and there's real minis... its truly another world... its suddenly all very serious ya know. I've always maintained that people love games and people love toys. Combine them both and its orgasmic. BUT I also very lucidly understand its way outta reach for most.

As an aside I often ponder about ways to close that gap. When I really break down the moving pieces of the mini manufacturing process it just doesn't add up to the elusiveness and expensiveness plaguing the industry.

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One Armed Bandit
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brahmulus wrote:
overtheboard wrote:
Consider that you will pay $6,000 to 20,000 for each mold for each miniature in your game.


While I'm not denying (and tortured in my workshop daily) that bringing miniatures into a boardgame is ridiculously exorbitant... I think there are far too many variables associated with production costs to throw out a number like this. Also this spread is pretty wide... kind of like saying it will be between $1 and $1,000,000.


6 to 20k is a lot narrower than 1 to a million. Also, that price is per mold, not per mini. You've surely seen model kits or plastic minis on sprues before. One sprue is a mold, this can usually cover at least a half dozen minis.

Quote:
and this guy http://www.gangfightgames.com/gang-leaders/ did not spend 6K on a mold nor does he plan to do so every 3 months to support his self published rpg rule book.


Given the scale he's working on, he is very likely hand-casting his minis (all ONE of them), which keeps costs way down, but is not practical or viable for a mass produced game going into distribution.

Quote:
Though highly successful LNOE[url] http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29368/last-night-on-e...[/url] has not invested "millions" into their minis.

Who said millions? All the minis in the LNOE box could be done on one sprue, maybe 2. That's probably about 10k for the mold. One percent of a single million. You're exaggerating, and it's ruining your case.

http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarseconomics.html
This guy has made molds, he knows what goes into them, and he gives example costing. For his example mold, it comes up at $18k... and that was 5 years ago.

If you want to discount people providing real numbers from actual experience, please provide your proof that goes against what's been said. All you did was make up some extremely inflated, unrealistic numbers, and then "supposed" several companies hadn't spend those (unrealistic) numbers. That's not proof. That's not anything.
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Levi Mote
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If you're good with CAD, there's always http://www.shapeways.com/
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Jake Staines
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palmerkun wrote:

Quote:
and this guy http://www.gangfightgames.com/gang-leaders/ did not spend 6K on a mold nor does he plan to do so every 3 months to support his self published rpg rule book.


Given the scale he's working on, he is very likely hand-casting his minis (all ONE of them), which keeps costs way down, but is not practical or viable for a mass produced game going into distribution.


More to the point: he's casting metal miniatures, not plastic. The mould for a metal miniature is much cheaper to make but lasts less long, and the material of the miniature itself is much more expensive. This balances out to mean that for small runs, metal is more economically sound (because the high costs of the plastic mould production would be amortised over fewer miniatures, raising the per-unit price more than the cost of metal vs. plastic does) and for large runs, plastic is more economically sound (because the cost of the mould is amortised over more miniatures, affecting the per-unit price less than using metal would).


(Metal-casting moulds are generally a kind of rubber, meaning they can flex easily around undercuts and so on; plastic moulds are machined from metal blocks.)
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James Hutchings
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Does anyone know how much custom meeples cost (obviously inspired by Mutant Meeples)?

PS Or plain meeples with capes?
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