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BattleCON: War of Indines» Forums » Variants

Subject: Custom Fighter: King Mask wrestling champ rss

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Thiago Colas
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I was going to wait for my full copy of BattleCON to arrive, but since i talked to Brad and he told me so, i'll post here the prototype of my character, King Mask. I just played with him a couple times, against Hikaru, so its still kind of a prototype, but any oppinion is welcome.

As i said before: The concept is of a chaining fighter, who gains bonuses and extra damage tolkens depending on which combination of style and base he used the turn before. When you play right, you can chain move after move (like King's combo throws in Tekken) and pile up bonuses, in exchange for predictability. But unlike Kehrolyn, he has the option of NOT chaining, giving up the bonuses.

Special Ability: Chain Wrestling - King Mask gets a chain tolken everytime he hits the oponent, to the max of 4. His strikes get a +1 damage for every counter in his pool. He can ante one tolken per beat to get a +2 damage. Everytime King Mask is hit by the opponent, he loses all his tolkens.

Styles:

Top Rope (1): Range: +0-2, Power: +0, Priority: +3
If Tombstone is in your Discart 1, Power +2
If Drive is on your Discart 1, Range +0-2
If Dash is on your Discart 1, Priority -2
Start of Beat: Teleport up to 3 spaces
You are considered out of range for any attack with priority higher than yours.
Opponents with lower priority this beat gain Stun Immunity.

Tombstone (2): Range: -0-2, Power: +2, Priority: +0
If Perfect is in your Discart 1, Priority +2
If Suplex is on your Discart 1, Soak 3
If Burst is on your Discart 1, Power +2
On Hit: Opponent is stunned

Perfect: Range: +0-1, Power: +2, Priority: -3
If Chair is in your Discart 1, Power +2
If Shot is on your Discart 1, Range +0-2
If Strike is on your Discart 1, Stun Guard 6
Perfect always wins clashes.
If your opponent starts the Beat within 1 range, he can't move this turn.

Chair: Range: +0-2, Power: +0, Priority: +0
If People's is in your Discart 1, Power +2
If Grasp is on your Discart 1, Power +1
If Strike is on your Discart 1, Priority +2
Soak 2, Stun Imunity
If you are hit by a higher priority atack, ignore all chair bonuses.

People's: Range: +0-2, Power: -2, Priority: +3
If Top Rope is in your Discart 1, Stun Guard 4
If Strike is on your Discart 1, Power +3
If Suplex is on your Discart 1, Start of Beat: Move up to 3
If you have a partner, +2 power for every partner you have.

Unique:

Suplex: Range: 1, Power: 2, Priority: 1
Start of Beat: Move a total of spaces equal to the Style's Range.
Range for Suplex is always 1.
On Hit: Move oponent one space towards you. He is stunned.

Overdrive:

Five Moves of Doom: Five moves of doom has Range, Power and Priority equal to the sum of all cards on your Discart Piles. He may spend as many Chain tokens he wants to get +2 damage. You cant gain more Chain Tokens this round.

(EDIT: Fixing typos)
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Josh
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Interesting combination, I like the looks of it. What style of wrestler are you going for though? A luchador style is quite a bit different from that of the Undertaker.

Issues:
Tombstone has a range listed of -2, meaning it could only be used with Shot or Burst. I'm assuming it's a typo though. Shouldn't that be another where the range is only 1? Given what move the Tombstone actually is (Piledriver) it would make sense to not have a range on it.

Five Moves of Doom would be rendered useless if you had Dash in your discard piles. Maybe give it normal stats, then say it's range/power/priority are affected by both style cards in the discard piles?

All in all, I like the design. I'm suddenly trying to picture a way to do a tag team character set. I've not watched wrestling in years, but two characters with very different styles (think Kane and RVD as a tag team) could play very interestingly in this, with their special moves being dependent on where their partner is.
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Thiago Colas
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IT was a Typo, already fixed it, thanks.

Im not going for any special kind of wrestler, im playing the whole stereotype here. And besides, the Undertaker have Top Rope moves

Last, but not least, indeed, playing Five Move of Doom would be useles with Dash in the discart piles.
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Josh
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dinobottm2 wrote:

Last, but not least, indeed, playing Five Move of Doom would be useles with Dash in the discart piles.


Ok, along those lines though, how will the math work? If you for some reason had Burst and Shot in your discards, would the range be 3-7? Not sure if that's the intent or not.

Also, not trying to be a dick, just trying to come up with possible ways it may not work to help you refine the character
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Thiago Colas
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No problem. not being a dick at all, its exactly what im looking for...

And yes, thats the range it would be. King Mask's style relies heavily on what you did before. Using the overdrive with Dash in any discart Pile would be a waste. Using it with Burst and Shot, like you said, would be a really long ranged option. It may even be impossible to use, depending on the situation. It is like that by design.

Something i missed before: The Tombstone we know is a pile drive, but here, its a style to be mixed with any other base. We can have the Tombstone Drive, we also can have a Shot or even a Dash. Suplex is a Base, it does work differently. (and is meant to be combined with Perfect)(below: at 1:51 please...)

 
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One Armed Bandit
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I am concerned that ALL your styles have range bonuses. This allows you to endlessly "shoot" opponents and never actually get into melee.
Thematically, this doesn't match a wrestler at all. They are all about getting up close, toe to toe with the opponent.

You can win an entire match without ever standing next to an opponent. That's not a wrestler. If anything, I would have more range PENALTIES, and then note "minimum range 1".

For reference, +1 range in the base characters is equal to using a whip (Kehrolyn) or a 2-3 metre long spear (Lixis's Lance). This makes each space on the board equal to about 1 metre.
A range of +2 is equal to being able to hit from about 3 metres away. I can't think of any way to grab someone from that far away outside of magic.

Instead of range modifiers, you should focus more on movement, enabling him to reach Range 1 instead.

Mechanically, you have a few issues. Overall, your numbers seem VERY high, once you factor in all your bonuses. Your Chain tokens have the potential to be EXTREMELY powerful.

A Chair Shot after using People's Strike will have 7 power. The only attack in the base game that can match that is Cadenza's Clockwork Strike or Kehrolyn's Mutating Bladed Strike (which she loses life for).
Sorry, that's 7 power without any Chain tokens. You can spend 4 of them and get it up to 15. Mind you, just with the regular damage, there's a good chance you'll never even reach 4 tokens. All your styles are good for +2 power (or more), meaning that by the time you reach 4 tokens, you'll probably have won already.
Strike+Drive+Shot+Grasp = 12, plus the chain tokens (1+2+3) makes 18. Make it Strike+Drive+Shot+Strike and that's 20 exactly. That's HUGELY powerful... and that was before using style bonuses.
Adding those in, you only need 3 hits. Strike+Drive+Shot is 10, at +2 each from styles is 16, and spending 2 chain tokens makes 20.

Suplex doesn't make sense. Range is always 1, which is good... but if the range is 1, you can't pull the opponent towards you - they're already as close as possible.

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Thiago Colas
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palmerkun wrote:
I am concerned that ALL your styles have range bonuses. This allows you to endlessly "shoot" opponents and never actually get into melee.Thematically, this doesn't match a wrestler at all. They are all about getting up close, toe to toe with the opponent.


Not all, but i see your point. I built that with sinergy to the suplex, that converts range in movement.

palmerkun wrote:
You can win an entire match without ever standing next to an opponent. That's not a wrestler. If anything, I would have more range PENALTIES, and then note "minimum range 1".

For reference, +1 range in the base characters is equal to using a whip (Kehrolyn) or a 2-3 metre long spear (Lixis's Lance). This makes each space on the board equal to about 1 metre.
A range of +2 is equal to being able to hit from about 3 metres away. I can't think of any way to grab someone from that far away outside of magic.

Instead of range modifiers, you should focus more on movement, enabling him to reach Range 1 instead.


I'll do my best. Any ideas? ITs still a prototype that was playstested only twice.

palmerkun wrote:
Mechanically, you have a few issues. Overall, your numbers seem VERY high, once you factor in all your bonuses. Your Chain tokens have the potential to be EXTREMELY powerful.


they are, but they are also incredibly easy to lose. A single hit and they all go down the drain.

palmerkun wrote:
A Chair Shot after using People's Strike will have 7 power. The only attack in the base game that can match that is Cadenza's Clockwork Strike or Kehrolyn's Mutating Bladed Strike (which she loses life for).
Sorry, that's 7 power without any Chain tokens. You can spend 4 of them and get it up to 15. Mind you, just with the regular damage, there's a good chance you'll never even reach 4 tokens. All your styles are good for +2 power (or more), meaning that by the time you reach 4 tokens, you'll probably have won already.


Maybe with a bigger Priority penalty? The idea behind the Chair style is that, if you're hit before the attack connect, you simply ignore the whole card.

One last thing, only one Chain token can be spent per turn.

palmerkun wrote:
Strike+Drive+Shot+Grasp = 12, plus the chain tokens (1+2+3) makes 18. Make it Strike+Drive+Shot+Strike and that's 20 exactly. That's HUGELY powerful... and that was before using style bonuses.
Adding those in, you only need 3 hits. Strike+Drive+Shot is 10, at +2 each from styles is 16, and spending 2 chain tokens makes 20.


I see... Maybe it was bad luck, but in the two playtests i never managed to pool more than 2 tolkens, and i was going for pooling more than spending.

palmerkun wrote:
Suplex doesn't make sense. Range is always 1, which is good... but if the range is 1, you can't pull the opponent towards you - they're already as close as possible.

If i got the rules right, if the opponent should move towards the character and there is no space, he would move to the space behind him. Thats what i was aiming for. Maybe i should clarify it better.

But please, lets go. I want more ideas...
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Brad Talton
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A more effective and fluid way to capture the combos might be with status effects. Instead of 'Top Rope' having 3 different lead-ins based on your discard pile, you could have each style provide a bonus to the next style in the line, and just the one lead-in from the base. For example, Tombstone might say 'End of Beat: Your next attack has +2 priority' as well as "If Dash is in your discard 1, this attack has -2 priority". My thought when looking at this character as he stands is that this is a lot of text and will probably not fit on the cards as it stands.

The chain ability sounds interesting, but I don't know that the ante ability is strictly necessary together with the pool bonus.

Suplex may need some re-wording, because the 'style's range' is 0~2 and everything in between. It would be more correct to say "move a number of spaces up to the style's maximum range."

Chair's stun immunity doesn't work as I'm reading it--consider that if you're hit by a higher priority attack, you lose the stun immunity bonus. If you're hit by a lower priority attack, stun immunity doesn't matter because you've already activated.

Many characters in BattleCON like Hikaru, Kehrolyn, and Cadenza only have 1 or 2 effects per card, but these effects form 'big ideas' that drive the character and integrate tightly to their unique abilities, making for a very directed play experience. Try to focus your character around capitalizing on his unique ability and a certain play style, and other things will fall into place from there. "How does this card help me to make better use of or interact with my Unique Ability?" is an important question for each style and base you create.

Anyway, looking interesting so far! Good luck as you continue playtesting ^_^
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Kyokai wrote:
A more effective and fluid way to capture the combos might be with status effects. Instead of 'Top Rope' having 3 different lead-ins based on your discard pile, you could have each style provide a bonus to the next style in the line, and just the one lead-in from the base. For example, Tombstone might say 'End of Beat: Your next attack has +2 priority' as well as "If Dash is in your discard 1, this attack has -2 priority". My thought when looking at this character as he stands is that this is a lot of text and will probably not fit on the cards as it stands.


The key here is that Status Effects are always there the next turn. The chaining concept im going is that only certain cards can get certain bonuses. And different bonuses as it is. Strike, for an example, gives different bonuses for the 3 styles that can follow it (Stun Guard for Perfect, Priority for Chair, Poer for People's). Maybe a re-wording would be better. Perhaps i could move some of this explaination to the character card (like Kehrolyn) and leave just the bonuses themselves...

Kyokai wrote:
The chain ability sounds interesting, but I don't know that the ante ability is strictly necessary together with the pool bonus.


That I agree... I'll wait for a few more oppinions, but yes, anting Chain tokens is out.

Kyokai wrote:
Suplex may need some re-wording, because the 'style's range' is 0~2 and everything in between. It would be more correct to say "move a number of spaces up to the style's maximum range."


Ok...

Kyokai wrote:
Chair's stun immunity doesn't work as I'm reading it--consider that if you're hit by a higher priority attack, you lose the stun immunity bonus. If you're hit by a lower priority attack, stun immunity doesn't matter because you've already activated.


Im open for a better idea here. My goal with the Chair Style is that if you're hit first, you are still able to do a weaker version of your attack. Not the full Chair Shot, just the Shot, for an example. It's a weaker version of the full stun immunity.

Kyokai wrote:
Many characters in BattleCON like Hikaru, Kehrolyn, and Cadenza only have 1 or 2 effects per card, but these effects form 'big ideas' that drive the character and integrate tightly to their unique abilities, making for a very directed play experience. Try to focus your character around capitalizing on his unique ability and a certain play style, and other things will fall into place from there. "How does this card help me to make better use of or interact with my Unique Ability?" is an important question for each style and base you create.


The unique ability i want for him is exactly the chaining feature. Im willing to give up everything else.

Kyokai wrote:
Anyway, looking interesting so far! Good luck as you continue playtesting ^_^

That's the intention Brad. Just waiting for the full game to arrive now.
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