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Subject: Grain Harvest rss

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Ryan Stainsby
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I need some clarification on the grain harvest action.
The rule book states you must have a family member on your farm to take the grain. Then it states:

If you also own a horse and a plow, take 3 bags of grain instead.

If you also own an ox and a plow, take 4 bags of grain instead.

So to take 4 grain, what do I exactly need?

(a) 1 plow, 1 Horse and 1 Ox

Or

(b) 2 plow, 1 Horse and 1 Ox

In addition, when it states that you need a horse and a plow to take 3 bags of grain, could that horse be substituted for an ox?
 
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Jonathan Er
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ryanst85 wrote:
I need some clarification on the grain harvest action.
The rule book states you must have a family member on your farm to take the grain. Then it states:

If you also own a horse and a plow, take 3 bags of grain instead.

If you also own an ox and a plow, take 4 bags of grain instead.

So to take 4 grain, what do I exactly need?

(a) 1 plow, 1 Horse and 1 Ox

Or

(b) 2 plow, 1 Horse and 1 Ox

In addition, when it states that you need a horse and a plow to take 3 bags of grain, could that horse be substituted for an ox?



hi Ryan

my understanding is neither

the correct answer should be ( for 4 bags of grain )

(c) 1 Plow and 1 Ox

the Ox is like an upgrade of the Horse.


thats what i gather from the rules, i have yet to play the game





Jonathan
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Ryan Stainsby
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Thanks Jonathan.

I guess that makes sense. The rule book is pretty good, but the grain harvest section is a little ambiguous and lacks a proper example. From a literal interpretation of the rules i would have guessed 2 Plows, a horse and an ox.

So is fulfilling a market order the only reason to produce/purchase a horse? I don't see why you would purchase one for grain production if an ox is always going to yield you one extra.

 
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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Yes, if you look at the market tiles, you'll see, that the horse is much more worth than the ox.
So you can "produce" a horse, use it for grain production until market day, and then sell it - or even better:
- produce a horse
- produce grain with it
- produce an ox with the grain
- sell the horse
- produce grain with the ox

but as you can see: many actions! ^^
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Jonathan Er
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ryanst85 wrote:
Thanks Jonathan.

I guess that makes sense. The rule book is pretty good, but the grain harvest section is a little ambiguous and lacks a proper example. From a literal interpretation of the rules i would have guessed 2 Plows, a horse and an ox.

So is fulfilling a market order the only reason to produce/purchase a horse? I don't see why you would purchase one for grain production if an ox is always going to yield you one extra.



hi Ryan

i'm afraid i cant really answer your question as i have yet to play the game. all i did was read thru the rules cos i am interested in the game. but its really hard to find !


but when i last read the rules, it didnt seem to me that the horse was underpowered.

sure using the ox to get grains is way better, but due to the limit of grains you can hold, having an ox may not be as useful as you may constantly be over the limit. and thus it wont produce as much as it is supposed to, so a horse might just do the job well enough thruout the game





Jonathan
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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Jion wrote:
but when i last read the rules, it didnt seem to me that the horse was underpowered.

sure using the ox to get grains is way better, but due to the limit of grains you can hold, having an ox may not be as useful as you may constantly be over the limit. and thus it wont produce as much as it is supposed to, so a horse might just do the job well enough thruout the game

*sigh*
As I already mentioned above: The horse has a much better market value, while the ox is the better grain producer. So, while grain gives you no VPs directly, the horse isn't "undepowered" - it is used for a different strategy BUT you can also use it to harvest grain, until you sell it.

As an example:

In the upper right corner, there are lying market tiles:
3 VP for an ox
4 VP for a horse

As to WHY: The number of actions is very limited in this game! So you may not have an action left in your first turn, beside:
- produce horse
- produce plow
- harvest grain (3 thanks to the horse)
- market day -> sell horse.
(and then there are still actions like family growth, church, etc)

In your next turn you produce an ox, and then you can harvest 4 grain.
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Ryan Stainsby
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Thanks Thomas,

Perfectly understand the strategy behind it now. This small section of the rule book really had me scratching my head, wondering if something got lost in the English translation.
 
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Mik Svellov
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ryanst85 wrote:
Thanks Thomas,

Perfectly understand the strategy behind it now. This small section of the rule book really had me scratching my head, wondering if something got lost in the English translation.

The German rules aren't too good either (in this particular section), but the translator has added a additional "also" in the sentence with the Ox, which isn't in the German rules.

The two "also" are meant to mean "in addition to the family member".
 
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Wolfram Troeder
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At least 1 meeple at the farm: 2 grain
At least 1 meeple at the farm & horse & plow: 3 grain
At least 1 meeple at the farm & ox & plow: 4 grain

Only one of the options above per action taken.
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Joshua Kocur
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I'm reading it as each choice can only be used once per "harvest action" due to the fact that it says
"If you have one or more family members on your farmyard, then they may perform a harvest action"

Am I wrong?
 
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Seth Jaffee
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slivermouse wrote:
I'm reading it as each choice can only be used once per "harvest action" due to the fact that it says
"If you have one or more family members on your farmyard, then they may perform a harvest action"

Am I wrong?

I'm not sure I understand your question. When you do a Harvest action, you produce 0, 2, 3, or 4 Grain, depending on what you have...

If you have 0 Farmers, you get 0 Grain.
If you have 1+ Farmers, then you get 2 Grain.
If you have 1+ farmers AND a HORSE and Plow, then you get 3 Grain.
If you have 1+ Farmers AND an OX and Plow, then you get 4 Grain.

Choose the best line above that you qualify for (i.e. if you have a Farmer, a Horse, an Ox and a Plow, then that qualifies you for the Ox+Plow line, you get 4 grain).

Edit: I don't have the rules in front of me - It MIGHT say that you can't even take the action if you have 0 Farmers, but I doubt it
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Joshua Kocur
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Meaning if I had 1 farmer & 1 farmer a horse and a plow could I produce 5 food in one harvest action?
 
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alan beaumont
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Going against the grain?
slivermouse wrote:
Meaning if I had 1 farmer & 1 farmer a horse and a plow could I produce 5 food in one harvest action?
No, you get 3 as you only get the best option. The rule is crystal clear: 'You may never use more than one combination....' p5 column1 paragraph 7. Also you should note you don't even get 3 if you have less storage available.
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Gillum the Stoor
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sedjtroll wrote:
I don't have the rules in front of me - It MIGHT say that you can't even take the action if you have 0 Farmers, but I doubt it.

Actually, it does:
Quote:
If you do not have any family members on your farmyard, then you cannot perform this action!

The problem with the rules organization is that this is followed by three ordinary paragraphs:
Quote:
If you also own a horse and a plow, take 3 bags of grain instead.

If you also own an ox and a plow, take 4 bags of grain instead.

(You may never use more than one combination, i.e., several family members, plows, oxen, or horses are of no additional use during a harvest.)
Because of this simple structure, it was easy to misread the "also" in the ox paragraph as applying to immediately preceding horse paragraph.

The rules would be clearer to enumerate explicitly the three possibilities (or four, if you include the "no grain for no farmers" option) as Seth and Wolfram did.
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