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Subject: Whats the point of Special weapon use? rss

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Mindaugas Guobys
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What’s the point of special weapon use if you can redirect your rolled skull the same way as to the "Crew" or "Masts"? For example: You roll 3 dices you get 2 skulls and a hit to the "Masts" you say you want to use Grape shot, and it gets 2 hits on the mast and that’s all. But its the same as to redirect your 2 skull hits to the "Masts" the special weapon makes no sense. If that person wants to sink the ship it’s the most useless thing as you lose hits to the "Hull" if you exceed the number of the hit location and for example if you really don’t want to sink the ship you can basically redirect that skull hit that would make a hit to the "Hull" to do some damage to a useful place for example a "Crew". For example: You get 3 skulls on for every cannon hit you can redirect them in any order that means for example 2 to the crew and one to the Masts. Why would you use special weapon "Grapeshot" to lose 1 skull success because, you do 3 Crew damage that exceeds the number on the slop for example and 1 hit that you could make in to useful tool to cripple enemies ship you just throw it away and no count it as a hit? Where is my error in this? Is it really like this? Or am I wrong? Can you for example use 1 skull to make grapeshot but count every (success that is 3 skulls in this example) and then count other 2 skull and make two hits on to the chosen area? Or is it if you use grapeshot or Chain-shot you automatically use up all the rolled skulls (successes) rolls?
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Anthony
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Special Weapons are useful for both Ship to ship combat and for Merchant Raids.

In Ship Combat, they allow you to have control over your skull hits. Normally, skull hits are decided upon by the player getting hit, but when you use the weapons you instead take that decision from them. Your choice of weapon is goign to be according to your desired endstate. If you want to destroy the ship I recommend going for chain shots to take out the masts. If you destroy the masts you reduce ther seamanship dice to only 1...you are very unliely to lose with them only having one dice. If you want to take the ship you may go for grape shot to take out the crew so that when you board you automatically win and take their ship.


Special Weapons are aso extremely useful for Merchant Raids as they allow you to change failures into successes to allow more control over the outcome of a merchant raid.

I hope this helps
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Evan Stegman
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Lunarlighto wrote:
What’s the point of special weapon use if you can redirect your rolled skull the same way as to the "Crew" or "Masts"? For example: You roll 3 dices you get 2 skulls and a hit to the "Masts" you say you want to use Grape shot, and it gets 2 hits on the mast and that’s all. But its the same as to redirect your 2 skull hits to the "Masts" the special weapon makes no sense. ...


The attacker doesn't redirect the hits. The person getting hit does.

In your example, the effect of chain shot would be 1 hit to the masts + one hit wherever the person being shot decides he wants it to go.

Not using chain shot means the person getting hit decides where both hits take effect.

Not the same thing at all.
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Mindaugas Guobys
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Thanks all this makes sense to me now.
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Kyle
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Grapeshot is great for stripping crew from a ship so you can board it more easily. If the other ship has no (or few) crew left, you'll be able to capture it with little to no effort. This is especially useful if you plan to keep the ship and want to take it with minimal damage.

Chainshot is really good if you want to avoid boarding, or to prevent the other ship from fleeing, because a ship with no masts remaining can only choose the "shoot" option. Once those masts are gone their only hope of surviving the fight is to blow your ship out of the water first or force you to flee, otherwise they're stuck until you finish them off.
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Ozan GUMUS
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EvanMinn wrote:
Lunarlighto wrote:
What’s the point of special weapon use if you can redirect your rolled skull the same way as to the "Crew" or "Masts"? For example: You roll 3 dices you get 2 skulls and a hit to the "Masts" you say you want to use Grape shot, and it gets 2 hits on the mast and that’s all. But its the same as to redirect your 2 skull hits to the "Masts" the special weapon makes no sense. ...


The attacker doesn't redirect the hits. The person getting hit does.

In your example, the effect of chain shot would be 1 hit to the masts + one hit wherever the person being shot decides he wants it to go.

Not using chain shot means the person getting hit decides where both hits take effect.

Not the same thing at all.


I think rule book should make this issue more clear. It seems lots of people thought attacker decides where to shoot for each skull he rolled.

Skull outcome is better than all other outcomes (1-2-3-4) in whole game except here so they should make this rule (attacked person to decide which part is shooted) more clear in rulebook. I was in confusion for days.
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Kyle
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EvanMinn wrote:
Lunarlighto wrote:
What’s the point of special weapon use if you can redirect your rolled skull the same way as to the "Crew" or "Masts"? For example: You roll 3 dices you get 2 skulls and a hit to the "Masts" you say you want to use Grape shot, and it gets 2 hits on the mast and that’s all. But its the same as to redirect your 2 skull hits to the "Masts" the special weapon makes no sense. ...


The attacker doesn't redirect the hits. The person getting hit does.

In your example, the effect of chain shot would be 1 hit to the masts + one hit wherever the person being shot decides he wants it to go.

Not using chain shot means the person getting hit decides where both hits take effect.

Not the same thing at all.
I just reread this a couple times and something isn't making sense.

The die roll in the example is: 2 mb mb

d10-1 If no specials are used, that's (1) hit to the mast and (2) hits to locations of the target's choice.

d10-2 If Grape shot is used, that's (1) hit to the mast and (2) hits to crew. If the target had fewer than 2 crew remaining, the excess hits do not transfer to the hull.

d10-3 If Chain shot is used, that's (3) hits to masts. If the target had fewer than 3 masts remaining, the excess hits do not transfer to the hull.

It's true that if you use Grape/Chain shot and you roll more skulls than the target has hits left in those locations some of those will be "wasted", but it's still worth it because by stripping away one or the other that ship becomes much easier to defeat. With no crew left, you will automatically win if you board it. With no masts left, it only gets to roll 1 die for seamanship and it cannot choose to flee or shoot board.



ozangumus wrote:
I think rule book should make this issue more clear. It seems lots of people thought attacker decides where to shoot for each skull he rolled.

Skull outcome is better than all other outcomes (1-2-3-4) in whole game except here so they should make this rule (attacked person to decide which part is shooted) more clear in rulebook. I was in confusion for days.
It's listed in the middle of a paragraph so it's possible to miss if reading through too quickly, but unless there's a translation issue it seems pretty clear:

M&M Rules - Hit Locations & Damage wrote:

In order to determine hit-location, a die is rolled for each
cannon that hits its target. All locations except “Hull”
have a number next to them and when that number
is rolled, the location is hit. For every mb rolled, the
target decides
which of the five locations is hit (unless
the attacker chooses to use any Special Weapons – see
opposite page). Inflict the “number” hits first and then
the mb hits.
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Ian Kelly
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ozangumus wrote:
Skull outcome is better than all other outcomes (1-2-3-4) in whole game except here so they should make this rule (attacked person to decide which part is shooted) more clear in rulebook. I was in confusion for days.


The skull is better if you have the target roll for the hits instead of the shooter. The rulebook unfortunately does not specify who should make the roll.
 
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Evan Stegman
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Peristarkawan wrote:


The skull is better if you have the target roll for the hits instead of the shooter. The rulebook unfortunately does not specify who should make the roll.


Unless someone is cheating by using loaded dice or unfair rolling, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever who rolls the dice.

The skull outcome works exactly the same regardless of whether the target or the shooter is rolling the dice: "the target decides which of the five locations is hit".
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Bobby Ramsey
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EvanMinn wrote:
Peristarkawan wrote:


The skull is better if you have the target roll for the hits instead of the shooter. The rulebook unfortunately does not specify who should make the roll.


Unless someone is cheating by using loaded dice or unfair rolling, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever who rolls the dice.

The skull outcome works exactly the same regardless of whether the target or the shooter is rolling the dice: "the target decides which of the five locations is hit".


The outcome is the same, yes. No one is saying that the result will be any different. What they are saying is that skulls will be wanted/unwanted depending on who is doing the rolling.

Throughout the game when rolling dice, skulls are usually preferable to no skulls. Having the target roll the hit dice helps keep this pattern, that they want to roll skulls.
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Evan Stegman
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That's a good point. Being consistent would make it more intuitive and easier to remember.
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Carsten Jorgensen
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Woelf wrote:
EvanMinn wrote:
Lunarlighto wrote:
What’s the point of special weapon use if you can redirect your rolled skull the same way as to the "Crew" or "Masts"? For example: You roll 3 dices you get 2 skulls and a hit to the "Masts" you say you want to use Grape shot, and it gets 2 hits on the mast and that’s all. But its the same as to redirect your 2 skull hits to the "Masts" the special weapon makes no sense. ...


The attacker doesn't redirect the hits. The person getting hit does.

In your example, the effect of chain shot would be 1 hit to the masts + one hit wherever the person being shot decides he wants it to go.

Not using chain shot means the person getting hit decides where both hits take effect.

Not the same thing at all.
I just reread this a couple times and something isn't making sense.

The die roll in the example is: 2 mb mb

d10-1 If no specials are used, that's (1) hit to the mast and (2) hits to locations of the target's choice.

d10-2 If Grape shot is used, that's (1) hit to the mast and (2) hits to crew. If the target had fewer than 2 crew remaining, the excess hits do not transfer to the hull.

d10-3 If Chain shot is used, that's (3) hits to masts. If the target had fewer than 3 masts remaining, the excess hits do not transfer to the hull.

It's true that if you use Grape/Chain shot and you roll more skulls than the target has hits left in those locations some of those will be "wasted", but it's still worth it because by stripping away one or the other that ship becomes much easier to defeat. With no crew left, you will automatically win if you board it. With no masts left, it only gets to roll 1 die for seamanship and it cannot choose to flee or shoot.



ozangumus wrote:
I think rule book should make this issue more clear. It seems lots of people thought attacker decides where to shoot for each skull he rolled.

Skull outcome is better than all other outcomes (1-2-3-4) in whole game except here so they should make this rule (attacked person to decide which part is shooted) more clear in rulebook. I was in confusion for days.
It's listed in the middle of a paragraph so it's possible to miss if reading through too quickly, but unless there's a translation issue it seems pretty clear:

M&M Rules - Hit Locations & Damage wrote:

In order to determine hit-location, a die is rolled for each
cannon that hits its target. All locations except “Hull”
have a number next to them and when that number
is rolled, the location is hit. For every mb rolled, the
target decides
which of the five locations is hit (unless
the attacker chooses to use any Special Weapons – see
opposite page). Inflict the “number” hits first and then
the mb hits.


Great example - but the "shoot" should have been "board".
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Kyle
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Randor20 wrote:
Great example :) - but the "shoot" should have been "board".
D'oh! I'll fix above.
 
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