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Subject: NEED HELP WITH SPAWNING MECHANIC rss

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Scott Siedschlag
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I am working on my PnP game, [thing=114505][/thing], and I am having trouble with a random enemy spawning mechanism. The general idea is that each round a new outlaw will spawn on one of the 16 building on the right hand side of the game board. (ie. not the Sheriff's Office or Cemetery) It will be possible that more than one enemy occupies a single space during the course of the game. The idea here is that when a building is occupied by 3 outlaws a gang is formed which will require special actions from the player. See the game board image...



My initial thought was to have the player roll a 1D6 for each building on the board and if a 6 was rolled a new outlaw would appear. I tested it out a couple of times, but the town quickly filled up with outlaws like a granny's bingo card when she is on a winning streak! Any thoughts for a challenging, yet well-balance enemy generator? Thanks in advance for any ideas.
 
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Kris J
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You could, perhaps, decide how many outlaws would spawn during a round/turn/phase and then roll 2d4. One is column and one is row. The dice could even be of two different colors!

You could try another die roll to see if/how many appear, and then use 2d4 to place.

Good luck!
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Andrew
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You were going to roll 1d6 for each of 16 buildings?

Anyway, you need to match the spawn rate with the rate players remove outlaws. How fast are players going to be beating outlaws?
 
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Scott Siedschlag
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fateswanderer wrote:
You were going to roll 1d6 for each of 16 buildings?


LOL, after the first two times of testing that, it seemed ridiculous to me too. Not only will the rate of dueling the outlaws be a factor, but also the rate of travel from building to building. Kris's idea of using the 2D4 isn't bad, but I wanted to try and lean towards using 1D6 only for the entire game. I had also thought of some sort of card drafting mechanism with a map of the town indicating the new spawn location, but that lends itself to more things that the player would have to print and cut out.
 
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Mike Cooper
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Okay. Let's go over this one more time.

When a man and a woman love each other very much......
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Sturv Tafvherd
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MvRichthofen wrote:
fateswanderer wrote:
You were going to roll 1d6 for each of 16 buildings?


LOL, after the first two times of testing that, it seemed ridiculous to me too. Not only will the rate of dueling the outlaws be a factor, but also the rate of travel from building to building. Kris's idea of using the 2D4 isn't bad, but I wanted to try and lean towards using 1D6 only for the entire game. I had also thought of some sort of card drafting mechanism with a map of the town indicating the new spawn location, but that lends itself to more things that the player would have to print and cut out.


How about using 2 d6? You can do it at least 2 ways:

-- first d6 indicates row, second d6 indicates column. Apply the same thing as the "2D4" suggestion, but when you roll a "5" or "6", no outlaws are spawned.


-- roll the 2 dice and add them together. 11 of the 16 locations are numbered 2 thru 12 -- you spawn the outlaw(s) on the location you rolled. This allows you to designate 5 locations as "outlaw-free" ... and it also makes some locations "outlaw-prone"
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David Boeren
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Rolling 16 times also just takes far too much time IMHO.

I think Sturv's suggestions are on the right track. Simply it and see if you can combine the two rolls (location and likelihood) into a single roll. If you need to, you can bend the likelihood odds by adjusting the number of buildings or making certain buildings "immune" to new outlaws (like they never appear at the jail or whatever) to lower the odds a bit.

The 2d6 added together provides good odds adjustability and if you're OK with uneven odds of where they appear could be a good way to go.

If one roll won't do both, maybe move the likelihood into a deck of outlaw cards and just roll the location. Then you can control the deck composition by making some of the cards citizens rather than outlaws and having pictures, which will inject a little flavor/humor into the game. "Someone's lurking around the back of the General Store. Oh, it's just Granny Johnson - not an outlaw after all." Actual outlaws can then have names and pictures and putting them on cards provides a natural place to put any special information about them if they have unique abilities or stats or whatever.
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Perhaps you could adapt the way the spawning is done in LNoE with the Zombies.

In that gane there is 14 Zombie minis - so there can never be more than 14 on the board at once.

At the begining of the Zombie players turn they roll 2d6. If the roll is higher than the current number of Zombies on the board that means that Zombies WILL spawn this turn. As a separate roll, later in the turn 1d6 is rolled to see how many Zombies are spawned. When spawned Zombies are placed in spawning pits, as equally dispersed as possible.

Maybe some "parts" of that mechanic could be adapted for your Outlaws ?

Good Luck !
 
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PenumbraPenguin
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I don't know whether this matches the flavour or mechanics of your game, but maybe the outlaws are more likely to appear in buildings near the edge of the town? You could have one d6 choose the row (1-2 = first row, 3 = second row, 4 = third row, 5-6 = fourth row), and another d6 do the same for columns.

(You could do the same thing to have them more likely to appear in the middle of town if that makes more sense)
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chris lake
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Ameoba Wars has an interesting Spawning mechanic which would roughly translate thusly.

Assign each builing with a "seediness value" Then roll a D6 and all locations with the matching value spawn an outlaw that turn. And if an Outlaw is already present at that location, possibly 2 more outlaws spawn and form a gang.
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B C Z
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cards, a'la pandemic?
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william sininger
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If I was doing this I would just have cards. Your outlaws would have where they spawn written on them. You just have to decide how many outlaws spawn in one turn. I would suggest that you put a number at the bottom of the card that tells you how many more outlaws are flipped. I would also have blank cards (well I say blank but I would put a wanted poster with captured stamped across it on the card). This way when it is time to draw new outlaws you flip the top card, let's say it is Black Bart he has building 4 listed and so is put into building 4. On the bottom of his card he has a 2 which means you draw 2 more outlaws and place them where the buildings listed on their cards. Only the first outlaw's bottom number is used.
Now if you flipped an outlaw that has a zero at the bottom he is the only outlaw this turn and if you draw one of the capture wanted posters you get no outlaws this turn.
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Kevin B. Smith
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Some great suggestions above (thumbed).

How committed are you to a 4x4 town? If you changed it to a 6x3 town, then you could use 1d6 and 1d6 divided by 2 to get an even distribution across all rows and columns. If you don't add any new buildings, then when you roll an outlaw-less building, there is no spawn this turn.
 
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Emile de Maat
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Moved Thread
Moved this thread from the Recommendations forum to the Game Design forum.
 
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One Armed Bandit
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The first thing you need is to determine how many outlaws you want to spawn each turn.

Until you know this, nothing anyone suggests is very useful
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Scott Siedschlag
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Very good point Jayson, however I thought it was assumed that it would be one (ie. "each round a new outlaw will spawn").
 
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One Armed Bandit
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Not what I assumed, given that your previous approach (1d6 per building) would average 3 per turn.

Using only d6, I would go with using 2d6 (different colors, or rolled one at a time) to determine which building gets one.
Number the buildings
2 3 4 5
2
3
4
5

Thus if your dice both roll from 2-5, you have a location, easy enough and perfectly distrbuted.

However, 1s and 6s are special.
Rolling a 1, with a 2-5 on the other die: Place the Outlaw outside the town, on the edge of the row indicated. So a 1,3 would be outside the board, above the 3 column, while a 3,1 is beside it, on the 3 row. This outlaw is on his way into town, but is waiting for some friends....

IF a particular spot outside of town ever reaches 3 outlaws, the Gang will immediately enter town in the nearest empty building (so closest to the top or left) and take over. If all buildings are occupied, they will pick whichever has the least Outlaws (which may mean a building with a Sheriff/Deputy but no outlaws), ties broken by nearest as usual.

Rolling 1,1: All outlaws outside the town immediately enter the nearest buildings, as they would above, even though the gang isn't full.
If there are no outlaws outside the town like this, roll 2 dice, rerolling any 1, 6 or dice that are doubles, and place 1 outlaw above the board in each space. Repeat with 2 dice for the side. (This means there will be 2 above and 2 beside, all in different spaces)

Rolling 6, with a 2-5 on the other die: Add one outlaw to the building with the most outlaws that is not yet a gang. If there are only gangs, add to whichever gang is smallest. If there's a tie, place them as close to the Sheriff/Deputy as possible.

Rolling 6,1 or 1,6: One outlaw appears in the same building as the Sheriff.

Rolling 6,6: Whichever building is closest to (but not the same space as) the Sheriff/Deputy immediately gains enough outlaws to become a Gang.

How's that?
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damian isherwood
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What about a chit pull from bag, have each building its own separate chit and keep them in a draw bag, current player pulls to see where an outlaw spawns. You can put in 4 non spawn tokens so players have a 1 in 5 chance of not drumming up any bandito's.

Or have your buildings color coded and when a player pulls a chit of the corresponding color a bandit spawns in each of the same color. You could again have a color that spawns none or multiples.

Just my 2c's
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Wynand Louw
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Cards are nice, because you can add AI.

"If Billy the Kid is in the Bar, Spawn Jesse James at the bank, Otherwise Spawn Billy at the Grocer"

"If Billy is in jail, spawn 10 of his gang on the porch of the jail"

Or stuff like that.
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David Cheng
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One simple way is to add or less 4 buildings (total = 12 or 20), then get a 12 or 20 side die.
 
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B-Rom
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Ok here is where I'm at with this.

I know you have some art already done - but OTOH you are clearly still developing your rules - so I'm going to assume nothing is in cement yet.

I'm also picking up that you want this to be a straight shootin' simple streamlined EZ-Play sorta thing.

So given this I'd knock your buildings down to 6 and rock something like this:

#######
OUTLAW SPAWN
At the beginning of the Outlaw Phase roll 1d6. If the result is 2 or greater nothing happens and the Spawn sequence concludes. If the result is 1 then an Outlaw has spawned and you must roll 1d6 again. Place the Outlaw in the building with the number that corresponds to your result.
#######

I went with the spawning "1" vs the "6" because you can take the player out of the OD&D but you can't... well... ya know...

So that's pretty straight up and it's all running off a simple six sided die on the fly with no result charts to reference, no cards to read and no number re-assigning or other thinking required. You'll also be increasing the size of the buildings so more of their fine detail will show through and character tokens will fit better on them. You could eliminate your duplicate buildings and trim off some of the less commonplace establishments you've included. The game will probably play more rapid fire and just be easier to manage - especially from a single player perspective.

But wait... there's more...

#######
POSSE (CARD)
Discard to ignore a successful Outlaw Spawn.
[A town militia formed and sent the bandit packin’]

SOILED DOVE
Discard to place a successful Outlaw Spawn in any building of your choice.
[A “lady friend” of yours lures the outlaw into your clutches, or out of your hair]
#######

Lastly, I know I just suggested a reduction in places of business... but man there is somethin' just not right about there being no Bordello in Crook City of all places.
 
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Chris D
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If the "one each turn" is not set in stone, one idea could be to roll 2d6 and sum the result, doubling on the map 2, 3, 11 and 12, so that all squares are covered. This would mean that the lowest odds spawn 2 outlaws.

That is if you really want to keep down the components: otherwise 2d4 seems the most logical choice, else 16 chits, I like also Penumbra's solution for skewing the odds of the borders with 2d6.

For sure don't make the player roll 16 times each turn... way too tedious!
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Sturv Tafvherd
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No_Frets wrote:

For sure don't make the player roll 16 times each turn... way too tedious!


Well ... it's not that tedious if you have 16 dice. But yeah, I get what you mean.
 
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Sturv Tafvherd
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MvRichthofen wrote:
I am working on my PnP game, [thing=114505][/thing],


I gotta say ... I like the artwork so far:


Who's the artist? And may I get his permission to cut-and-paste some art for personal use?
 
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Chris D
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Stormtower wrote:
No_Frets wrote:

For sure don't make the player roll 16 times each turn... way too tedious!


Well ... it's not that tedious if you have 16 dice. But yeah, I get what you mean.


Yeah, but then how do you know which square has spawned and limit it to once per turn?

Oh and yeah, nice artwork, I didn't check the link before...
 
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