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Subject: Monster Tokens on Adventure Cards rss

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Nunya Business
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I have a question concerning the monsters that get placed on adventure cards.

Lets say that the card must be done in order and the monster occupies the top tier. When I defeat the monster do I take the monster before I complete the card? Also, since I defeated the "monster" do I get those die back to complete the actual adventure card?

The reason I asked is some cards are near impossible to complete with certain monsters on them.
 
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Jerry Martin
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Monster is flipped over and you get the die back. Once you complete or fail the card then you get the monster. I think this is because the monster is meant to cover the task under it and you don't have to do that task once it is covered by the monster.

I am new to this so take it with a grain of salt.
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Rhiannon D
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Syvanis wrote:
Monster is flipped over and you get the die back. Once you complete or fail the card then you get the monster. I think this is because the monster is meant to cover the task under it and you don't have to do that task once it is covered by the monster.

I am new to this so take it with a grain of salt.


I'd disagree unless you can point to the rule.
Monsters are claimed either when you complete the card or between saying you fail and suffering the penalty, so I'd say the dice stay where they are until then.
 
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Jeff Hoffman
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From the current FAQ:

What do items mean when they say “defeat” a monster?
When a player uses an item/spell that “defeats” a monster, that player chooses a monster in play (not necessarily at the same adventure his investigator is at) and turns that monster facedown. None of the monster’s costs must be paid (such as advancing the clock or losing sanity/ stamina) and all of that monster’s tasks are considered to be completed. The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not. Note that if a monster is only partially covering a task, any uncovered parts of the task are still uncompleted for purposes of succeeding at the adventure.


I would say that the monster's locked die does not stay on a defeated monster and becomes freed instead.
 
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Judy Krauss
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Gamemaster wrote:
From the current FAQ:

What do items mean when they say “defeat” a monster?
When a player uses an item/spell that “defeats” a monster, that player chooses a monster in play (not necessarily at the same adventure his investigator is at) and turns that monster facedown. None of the monster’s costs must be paid (such as advancing the clock or losing sanity/ stamina) and all of that monster’s tasks are considered to be completed. The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not. Note that if a monster is only partially covering a task, any uncovered parts of the task are still uncompleted for purposes of succeeding at the adventure.


I would say that the monster's locked die does not stay on a defeated monster and becomes freed instead.


That only applies when an item is used to automatically defeat the monster (not when it is fought and defeated by rolling dice).
 
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L Cinn
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regency_rhi wrote:
Syvanis wrote:
Monster is flipped over and you get the die back. Once you complete or fail the card then you get the monster. I think this is because the monster is meant to cover the task under it and you don't have to do that task once it is covered by the monster.

I am new to this so take it with a grain of salt.


I'd disagree unless you can point to the rule.
Monsters are claimed either when you complete the card or between saying you fail and suffering the penalty, so I'd say the dice stay where they are until then.

EDIT: herp-a-derp. misread the OPs post, I thought it was about locked dice. So I actually agree with you, you can not use the dice used to complete a monster task again on that turn.

For the OP:
page 11
Once an investigator resolves an Adventure card with a Monster
marker on it, he removes all dice from the marker
and takes it
as well as the Adventure card and gains any reward mentioned
on the back of the marker.

If a player successfully completed one or more tasks on a
Monster marker (or a task which includes a Monster marker, as
in the case of a partial monster task) before failing to resolve
the Adventure card it is on, he still gains the Monster marker,
removing all dice from the marker, taking it, and gaining any
reward mentioned on the back of the marker. He does this before
suffering the penalties for failing to resolve the Adventure card.
 
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Wade Nelson
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We play that the monster is defeated and any effects associated at the time that we resolve the Adventure Card but before the Adventure Card effects.

So on an Adventure Card with a Monster and Three Tasks (in or out of order not important for example):

1) Attempt and defeat monster. Monster stays on card for now. Don't get any locked dice or anything back yet.
2) Attempt tasks on adventure card.

Results:

3a) Fail tasks. Remove monster, take monster reward and locked die and anything else associated with monster. Resolve failed Adventure Card effects.
3b) Defeat all tasks. Remove monster, take monster reward and locked die and anything else associated with monster. Resolve successful Adventure Card effects.

 
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L Cinn
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wadenels wrote:

1) Attempt and defeat monster. Monster stays on card for now. Don't get any locked dice or anything back yet.

The OPs question wasn't about locked dice, and you're free to play however you like, but technically:

Also page 11, about locked dice:
Until that Adventure card is resolved, the Mythos card is no longer in
effect, or the task on that Monster marker is complete, that die
may not be added to die rolls and its result may not be used to
complete tasks.

So you can use locked dice as soon as you complete the monster task.
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Steve Duff
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The dice you use to defeat the monster stay on the monster, because well, they've been used. You can never use a dice twice in the game. Ever.

Locked dice become unlocked, and are now available to be claimed and used, because you haven't yet used them.

The monster stays on the card, because you only claim it at the end of your turn. Flip it upside down simply to keep track of defeated/undefeated monsters.

You always get killed monsters as trophies, regardless if ultimately you failed or succeeded doing the card.
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Dex Quest
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Hey Steve, it seems these same problems with Elder's rules come up time and time again. I really love this game, but for such a big release the rulebook just isn't clear enough on so many critical areas. I reckon 99% of gamers saying the game's too easy or too hard are making big errors such as monster placement/removal / die lcoking / rerolls wrong etc...

Hey, maybe I'm not the worst rules-writer in the world?! Okay, second worst....
 
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Dave Maynor
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So then this leads to another question.......

If you complete a monster task which was locking the red die, did you have to play your unique item before attempting the task to make the red die available? Can you then play an item after that roll to then add the red die to your pool, or did that item need to be played before your first roll?

In my mind, a locked die... in the case of monsters.... is one of the dice required to complete that task. You need not spend items to add it to your pool (like a held die on a spell), but it counts as one of the dice completing that monster... so you don't get it 'back' until the end.
 
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Chris Lawson
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i3ullseye wrote:
In my mind, a locked die... in the case of monsters.... is one of the dice required to complete that task. You need not spend items to add it to your pool (like a held die on a spell), but it counts as one of the dice completing that monster... so you don't get it 'back' until the end.

This is almost the correct interpretation, but not quite.

You get the locked die back as soon as the monster has been defeated. This means you get it back as soon as all the requirements for that monster tasks have been fulfilled. You do not have to wait until the Adventure has succeeded or failed.

This is in the rules, see page 11, Cards and Markers with a Locked Die Icon.
Quote:
Until that Adventure card is resolved, the Mythos card is no longer in effect, or the task on that Monster marker is complete, that die may not be added to die rolls and its result may not be used to complete tasks.

In other words, the die becomes unlocked as soon as either...
(i) the Adventure card is resolved.
(ii) the Mythos card is no longer in effect.
(iii) the task on that Monster marker is complete.
 
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Dave Maynor
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Even if that's the case.... it doesn't answer my question.

If I want to use that red die that is currently locked on a monster, do I 'spend' my unique item before I start rolling? Or can I roll, complete the monster, and THEN spend a unique item to add the red die to my later rolls?
 
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Wade Nelson
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i3ullseye wrote:
Even if that's the case.... it doesn't answer my question.

If I want to use that red die that is currently locked on a monster, do I 'spend' my unique item before I start rolling? Or can I roll, complete the monster, and THEN spend a unique item to add the red die to my later rolls?


The second one.

Rules Page 9 wrote:
A player may spend 1 or more Common Items, Unique Items,
or Spells before any roll while his Investigator marker is on
an Adventure card.
.
emphasis mine

 
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Doug Andrews
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willsargent wrote:
... these same problems with Elder's rules come up time and time again... the rulebook just isn't clear enough... I reckon 99% of gamers saying the game's too easy or too hard...


1) Interestingly I was stuck in interpreting the rule that says if you completed "one or more tasks on a Monster marker... before failing... the adventure card... still gains the monster marker..."

I think it means that if you completed "one monster task" before failing that you get the monster.

Otherwise the rule makes no sense. The entire Monster 'Marker" is a task (along with any other icons if it was a partial monster task) and you can only complete tasks as a whole, so how can you complete 'one or more' tasks on the Monster Marker itself?

2) In learning the game, I have only tried to complete 5 adventures and have failed every one of them. The wisdom has been piling up though and I can't wait to back in there and win one!

SoCal Doug

 
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Steve Duff
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DougA wrote:
Otherwise the rule makes no sense. The entire Monster 'Marker" is a task (along with any other icons if it was a partial monster task) and you can only complete tasks as a whole, so how can you complete 'one or more' tasks on the Monster Marker itself?


Good eye. I suspect it's either some outdated language, perhaps monsters at some point during development could have more than one line of tasks on them. Or, it's future proofing, and maybe monsters in an expansion will have more than one line.
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Dave Maynor
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because depending on your investigator, you may indeed complete one or more tasks on monster markers. The language is a bit odd, sure... but if you can complete multiple tasks on a single roll, you can do this on 2 different monsters. It just isn't clear, but not really inaccurate.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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DougA wrote:
Otherwise the rule makes no sense. The entire Monster 'Marker" is a task (along with any other icons if it was a partial monster task) and you can only complete tasks as a whole, so how can you complete 'one or more' tasks on the Monster Marker itself?


Well, there is Shub-Niggurath who adds a Terror task to all monsters when AO.
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The OPs question seems to focus on the impact of monsters at the bottom of Arrow cards.

My view is that these monsters become an additional task, which must be completed last.

Yes it does make some VERY difficult, but with the use of enough items clues they should all be doable unless you have 2 really tough monsters at the bottom.

If you need to place two or monsters at the bottom of arrow cards i'd suggest this means you are already screwed.
 
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Steve Duff
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Dam the Man wrote:
Well, there is Shub-Niggurath who adds a Terror task to all monsters when AO.


Hmmm, interesting. I was taking that as adding a Terror symbol to the task already on a monster. Meaning one more die that had to be accomplished simultaneously.

The faq makes it clear it's a second, completely separate task.

Combined with the above wording, a rules lawyer could argue that you could take the monster after failing because you completed one of the two tasks.
 
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Steve Duff
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nssxxx wrote:
The OPs question seems to focus on the impact of monsters at the bottom of Arrow cards.

My view is that these monsters become an additional task, which must be completed last.


That's not "a view", that's correct. The faq clearly says you're right.
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Brother Leon
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
nssxxx wrote:
The OPs question seems to focus on the impact of monsters at the bottom of Arrow cards.

My view is that these monsters become an additional task, which must be completed last.


That's not "a view", that's correct. The faq clearly says you're right.


View or fact or whatever, everybody here is talking about locked dice and monster trophies and nobody seemed to have addressed the question.

I think that the additional Shub-Niggurath terror is part of the existing monster task. could somebody please print the FAQ which says otherwise?

Given his doom track, i assumed that the only way to defeat him is to tool up, collect trophies and defeat him in a final battle. If anyone has beat him with Elder Signs, how did you apply the Terror rule to the monsters??
 
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Steve Duff
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nssxxx wrote:
I think that the additional Shub-Niggurath terror is part of the existing monster task. could somebody please print the FAQ which says otherwise?


Can you clarify Shub-Niggurath’s Black Goat of the Wood ability?

Shub-Niggurath’s ability adds a new task, consisting of a single terror symbol, to each monster.

A task is defined as a row of symbols. Shub adds a task, not a symbol, therefore it's an entirely new line.
 
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Brother Leon
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Thanks.

i estimate that that makes the game a bit easier; but not as much as i estimate that someone will now demonstrate how it makes it harder...cry
 
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