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Subject: Response from Z-Man regarding the Vinhos Delay....if you want to call it that. rss

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Sky Zero
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Below is the official response I got from Z-man when I emailed them about the delay. I hope I'm not the only one that reads this and goes...WTF???

"Good question, as Vihnos has not arrived at our warehouse.
As we are at the mercy of transport companies (containers, ships, docks, strikes) we expect a transport window of 5-6 weeks.
In this case, (and a few other games involved) this has not happened.
Believe me, we would have preferred receiving the games on time, and the games shipped to our distributors and to you in a timely fashion.

Regards,
S** I*****"



Are you kidding me? What company on earth sits around going, "hmmm, I wonder if the game I'm publishing is going to arrive today?" Do they really think the gaming community is that ignorant? I guess they figure if they put their head in the sand, the problem goes away. I'm so angry I paid them in full for this game. I want my money back cry
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Zé Mário
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Quote:
Good question


LOL!
 
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Paul DeStefano
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This is the way container shipping works.

Their response is proper.
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Jack Francisco
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This is why when I see a Euro I like, I pay a little extra to get the import version rather than wait around for American companies to figure out what the hell they're doing. I'm a big fan of Z-Man, but this is a bit lame.
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Dave Dyer
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skyzero wrote:

Are you kidding me? What company on earth sits around going, "hmmm, I wonder if the game I'm publishing is going to arrive today?" Do they really think the gaming community is that ignorant?


I don't find that explanation to be implausible at all. How much leverage do you suppose you have when you "own" one cubic meter of a 10,000 ton container ship?
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Paul DeStefano
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skyzero wrote:
What company on earth sits around going, "hmmm, I wonder if the game I'm publishing is going to arrive today?" Do they really think the gaming community is that ignorant?


I can't find the exact threads, but this same thing delayed Asmodee's Claustrophobia expansion and Plaid Hat's recent releases.

This is far from uncommon.

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Sky Zero
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Geosphere wrote:
skyzero wrote:
What company on earth sits around going, "hmmm, I wonder if the game I'm publishing is going to arrive today?" Do they really think the gaming community is that ignorant?


I can't find the exact threads, but this same thing delayed Asmodee's Claustrophobia expansion and Plaid Hat's recent releases.

This is far from uncommon.



Given that the delay has gone well beyond a few months, it's more than just them waiting on the 5-6 week window of arrival. We've been hearing "it's on it's way" for 6 months now. Even better, there's zero information on their site about it and it's no longer listed in the 2012 releases. Something tells me there's a bigger issue being covered up and rather than admitting and losing all the preorders, we're just being stringed along.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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As far as I'm aware, they've never posted a release date.

Hard to hold them to it.
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Richard
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Unfortunately, despite wishes to the contrary and the beliefs of this marvelous age we live in, there are still techniques out there not possessed including that of omniscience.

I find that rep's honesty refreshing.
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Matt Shinners
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Coren wrote:
Unfortunately, despite wishes to the contrary and the beliefs of this marvelous age we live in, there are still techniques out there not possessed including that of omniscience.

I find that rep's honesty refreshing.


Same here. I'm sure Z-Man wants that game on the shelves more than you do. You get 1 copy and enjoyment out of it - they make their money off of many, many copies.

Overseas shipping is anything but reliable.
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Andy Andersen
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I think the games were on that cruise ship that tipped over.
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Brent Wilson
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Orangemoose wrote:
I think the games were on that cruise ship that tipped over.


Was Vinhos what was distracting the captain and his lady-friend?

It does take a lot of focus-- I could see how that would be a problem while driving the boat.
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Chris Gray
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And the river ran red with the dye of cardboard wine chits.
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David Boeren
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I have no idea if this is typical of container shipping or not. Still, you've got a ship traveling a known route, and a lot of the upcoming conditions have at least partial knowledge or prediction.

I can believe some variability in travel time due to weather, tides, and other variable factors, but that seems like a larger window than I would have guessed. But as one of the other posters said, Z-Man wants them arrive more than any of us do because they're going to make money when that happens.

So I guess we as a species are still just incredibly bad at shipping things long distances on slow cheap boats.
 
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Andy Andersen
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Recently a Dutch(?) teenage girl sailed solo around the world. We should have asked her to stop in China and pick up a few copies.
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Richard
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That just makes pirates even cooler. Plunder by day; board games by night!

I guess that's why Davey Jones' punishment was that he took all the board games away save Liar's Dice. PotC #2 would have been so much better and make more sense if they had shown a game of Vinhos being played on Sparrow's ship. Then again, it'd still be held up in production...
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Sky Zero
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Orangemoose wrote:
Recently a Dutch(?) teenage girl sailed solo around the world. We should have asked her to stop in China and pick up a few copies.


LOL!!!
 
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J Swack
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Probably true in the 1800s, ship sales and no one knows until the ship reaches the destination. This day and age with GPS, satellite phones, etc, isn't the shipping companies keeping track of their ships? But I'm not totally surprised given how many times I've said, "Really?!, we can put a man on the moon and I have more computing power on my cell phone than the computer that took man to the moon, but we can't do _________?!"
 
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sub unit
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I thought the original release date was December? If they were expecting a 5-6 week transit time for the ship, it left in November.. and it's still at sea in February? Maybe Z-Man should notify the coast guard?
 
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Brent Wilson
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subunit wrote:
I thought the original release date was December? If they were expecting a 5-6 week transit time for the ship, it left in November.. and it's still at sea in February? Maybe Z-Man should notify the coast guard?


When I decided to buy Vinhos, the expected release data was "Summer 2011" which people expected to be between Origins and GenCon.
 
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Kelly Lees
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The supplier for the company i work for was waiting for some bottles to be delivered in a matter of weeks. The ship sunk, the container full of bottles was lost and we had to wait 3 months for new ones. It happens. There was a shortage in all of north america cause of it.
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Sky Zero
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dragonpup wrote:
The supplier for the company i work for was waiting for some bottles to be delivered in a matter of weeks. The ship sunk, the container full of bottles was lost and we had to wait 3 months for new ones. It happens. There was a shortage in all of north america cause of it.


So do you believe the North American version of Vinhos was lost at sea? I doubt it because they would have quieted the masses with that statement.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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skyzero wrote:
quieted the masses.


I'm not sure you posting multiple threads counts as 'masses'.

This is a tiny industry where things vanish, things go wrong, entire companies sometimes pop out of existence without warning or telling their fans and other odd things.

The delay of a game that had no firm release date is not really all that large a blip on the radar. ZMan is more concerned than you - they aren't making money one it. You just aren't getting a game.

This isn't some Felliniesque fiasco like Duke Nukem Forever.

Hell, I'm still waiting for the release of the Lost World's Gladiator series by Nova in 1982. One day, those damn games might just show up...
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Ryan M
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I have to side with the disappointed crowd. Like others, I thought this game was originally "expected" last summer. I think it was even on the Zman website of "upcoming" games at one point, including their expected release info, but has since vanished.

Based on that, it has been months with zero news. Yes, delays happen all the time for any number of reasons. But that hasn't been communicated. And people have money invested in pre-orders that they may want to spend elsewhere but they keep getting strung along.

I don't buy the "no official release date" excuse. We've seen countless examples of how to best communicate this, and I don't know if I've ever seen a game have a set release day like a movie or videogame release. Usually it is always estimated until the regional warehouses get the copies and start sending them out to the sellers. And we've still seen much more reliable timelines in the past. Games vanishing, especially games that people have ordered themselves and received from overseas in much shorter time, is the exception, not the rule.

And after all this, getting a response of basically, "Good question. What IS up with that game? Shrugs you later!" isn't a confidence builder. People can handle delays as long as they are getting some useful information as to why or what is going on. When the company releasing the game seems to not know or even care, people are going to be frustrated.

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David Boeren
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Mools wrote:
And after all this, getting a response of basically, "Good question. What IS up with that game? Shrugs you later!" isn't a confidence builder. People can handle delays as long as they are getting some useful information as to why or what is going on. When the company releasing the game seems to not know or even care, people are going to be frustrated.


Agreed. I don't know what (if anything) Z-Man knows that we don't, but they at least have contacts they can call along the route and try to find out something. Even if they don't find out anything of value, just reporting that they tried and what little they DID find out would go a long way to letting people know that whatever the problem is, they've done what they could to deal with it.


TheFlatline wrote:
You're also forgetting customs. I've seen cargo containers sit in customs for months for no real reason (Shadowrun Limited Edition was in customs for 2 months for example).


True, customs can be a major roadblock as well. If they told us "the game is in customs and we don't know when it will be out" then I think most people would accept that. We'd know a lot more about the delay than we do now, including how far along it is, who to blame it on, and a better idea of how much longer it will take once the current obstacle is cleared.


Overall, I've got piles of games to play. I won't shrivel up and die for not having Vinhos. Yes, I'm interested in it and would like to pick up a copy when it's available, but if that's not for several more months it's not really going to change much. Then, as now, I'll have other games to play and it'll be struggling to find its slot to get on the table.
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