

One group wants to try to keep games within 3 hours (including in games rules explanation).
He tried this before with just the base game and it seems solid, but would like to get more opinions....
starting resources... Fuel: 6 Food: 6 Morale: 7 Pop: 9
3 distance triggers sleeper phase
6 distance + 1 more jump = win.
Overall, cut everything down by 2/3 3/4 (whoops, it's 75%, NOT 66%) where more or less appropriate.
I don't recall what he did with the Cylon Symp for 4p or 6p games, but I'm guessing "Fued" (the 2 F's) get halved nicely at 3, while Morale and Pop can be a quasi x.5 increment (so Morale at 3 = red. Morale at 4 = blue, but Morale at 4 AND Pop at 5 = red).
Am I missing something obvious here? EDIT1: Hmm, perhaps Raptors start off at only 3, and you CAN go up to 4 if given the option.



One issue is that not everything scales cleanly. Regardless of the game's length, some things will have a fixed effect on the game. Each Cylon can do a certain amount of sabotage before being caught; their Reveal powers will do a set amount of damage; and their Super Crises will have a fixed effect. Things like those happen once every game and will do the same amount of damage no matter how long the game goes on; they don't get scaled down to 2/3 or 3/4 their original intensity. Likewise, each oncepergame does not suddenly become a 3/4ofatimepergame.
And of course, some other things aren't scaling at all here. It's still just as hard for the Cylons to win by Galactica damage or a Centurion boarding, except there is less time to accomplish these tasks. And that also means that humans will have more locations and vipers available, since there is less time for the Cylons to wear the down with damage.
But there's a more subtle problem: the Cylons' goal isn't to reduce the average of all the resources, it's to reduce a single resource to 0. That may not sound significant, so let me create an example to demonstrate why it's actually very important:
Suppose there's a game with six "resources", all of which start at 8. In this game, a sixsided die is rolled 32 times, and each time the resource corresponding to the number that comes up has its current value reduced by 1. Player A wins if any resource falls to 0; Player B wins if they all stay above 0.
But thirtytwo die rolls takes time, so they create a shortened version by halving everything: the die is rolled 16 times and all resources start at 4. Now, does this mean the game is still balanced the same? Certainly not  Player B is now in a more advantageous position than before. Is it not clear why? Suppose they're really in a hurry so they divide everything by eight  the die is rolled 4 times and each resource starts at 1. The ratios are all the same, but now it's obvious that Player B is guaranteed to win.
And that's the basic issue here. The Cylons' goal is to punch a hole in one resource. If you scale everything down, variance becomes more important, so it becomes easier for a hole to randomly form and for the Cylons to exacerbate such a hole.
I'm not saying that the idea is hopeless; I just want to point out that a flat "keep all the ratios the same" method is not going to maintain the game balance, even if at first glance it looks rather like it should.

United Kingdom Southampton Hampshire
I'll think of something witty to put here...

I would certainly start with one lost raptor and probably a couple of damaged vipers and a location damaged (probably redraw if it hits food or fuel).
Maybe have sleeper phase at distance 2, so it is like starting the game closer to the end.
Also the first couple of rounds tend to be card poor  consider starting with more cards.

Matt Vollick
Canada St. Thomas Ontario

salty53 wrote:
Suppose there's a game with six "resources", all of which start at 8. In this game, a sixsided die is rolled 32 times, and each time the resource corresponding to the number that comes up has its current value reduced by 1. Player A wins if any resource falls to 0; Player B wins if they all stay above 0.
But thirtytwo die rolls takes time, so they create a shortened version by halving everything: the die is rolled 16 times and all resources start at 4. Now, does this mean the game is still balanced the same? Certainly not  Player B is now in a more advantageous position than before. Is it not clear why? Suppose they're really in a hurry so they divide everything by eight  the die is rolled 4 times and each resource starts at 1. The ratios are all the same, but now it's obvious that Player B is guaranteed to win.
Aren't there six resources still? I don't see a guaranteed win. I do understand what you are trying to get across and that's the game won't scale perfectly but I don't really know if a minor shift in the resources will affect the game enough to notice on any individual game.

Mark Thomason
United States Washington

6 resources all at one, 4 rolls.
Guaranteed win on the first roll. Die rolls the first time; whichever of the 6 resources is rolled immediately drops to zero. Player B wins.
Push it up to 8 rolls, with each of 6 resources starting at 2. First roll =1. Now the resources are 1,2,2,2,2,2. Second roll you have a 1/6 chance of Player A losing  if he doesn't lose, Third roll gives a 1/3 chance of losing. Fourth roll is 1/2, Fifth roll is 2/3, Sixth roll is 1/6 chance... now the 7th roll wins the game for Player B. Still guaranteed win.
Push it up to 16 rolls, with each resource starting at 4. Now Player A has a chance to win, but still not highly likely. Push up to 32, now you're evening out the odds.
6 Resources x 8 Points/Resource = 48 total points. Except 6 of those can't be lost, so you've got 42 total points to lose without losing the game; you lose point 43rd and one resource is at zero. 32 rolls vs. 42 absorbable points means you have a margin of error of 10.
6 resources x 4 Points/Resource = 24 total points. Subtract 6 and you have 18 absorbable points versus 16 rolls. So now your margin is reduced from 10 to 2.
Does that help with the math?

Matt Vollick
Canada St. Thomas Ontario

Blackfaer wrote: 6 resources all at one, 4 rolls.
Guaranteed win on the first roll. Die rolls the first time; whichever of the 6 resources is rolled immediately drops to zero. Player B wins.
Push it up to 8 rolls, with each of 6 resources starting at 2. First roll =1. Now the resources are 1,2,2,2,2,2. Second roll you have a 1/6 chance of Player A losing  if he doesn't lose, Third roll gives a 1/3 chance of losing. Fourth roll is 1/2, Fifth roll is 2/3, Sixth roll is 1/6 chance... now the 7th roll wins the game for Player B. Still guaranteed win.
Push it up to 16 rolls, with each resource starting at 4. Now Player A has a chance to win, but still not highly likely. Push up to 32, now you're evening out the odds.
6 Resources x 8 Points/Resource = 48 total points. Except 6 of those can't be lost, so you've got 42 total points to lose without losing the game; you lose point 43rd and one resource is at zero. 32 rolls vs. 42 absorbable points means you have a margin of error of 10.
6 resources x 4 Points/Resource = 24 total points. Subtract 6 and you have 18 absorbable points versus 16 rolls. So now your margin is reduced from 10 to 2.
Does that help with the math?
Oh yes, I was thinking two had to come off each resource.



salty53 wrote: Suppose there's a game with six "resources", all of which start at 8. In this game, a sixsided die is rolled 32 times, and each time the resource corresponding to the number that comes up has its current value reduced by 1. Player A wins if any resource falls to 0; Player B wins if they all stay above 0.
But thirtytwo die rolls takes time, so they create a shortened version by halving everything: the die is rolled 16 times and all resources start at 4. Now, does this mean the game is still balanced the same? Certainly not  Player B is now in a more advantageous position than before. Is it not clear why? Suppose they're really in a hurry so they divide everything by eight  the die is rolled 4 times and each resource starts at 1. The ratios are all the same, but now it's obvious that Player B is guaranteed to win.
I suppose you swapped players A and B by accident in one of the paragraphs? In the latter situation, player A (the Cylon) will always win.

Scott O'Dell
United States Nebraska

I have now played BSG twice. The second time with 3 new people and adding 2 to every resource (to help the humans). Both times we have played under 3 hours. Both games were close and the humans had made 4 jumps and needed 1 more to win.



Just to grab any more last minute tweaks and suggestions (likely to a 5p game, but if we need to use exp, esp. CL and stuff, I may ask we play "as is")....
As is, would you say this is prohuman or procylon?
(everything was actually scaled down to 75%)
so far, I've gotten...
starting resources... Fuel: 6 Food: 6 Morale: 7 Pop: 9
3 distance triggers sleeper phase heard an alternative for 2. Will do if this seems to be a prohuman thing
6 distance + 1 more jump = win.
3 raptors with the 4th out of the game permanently
6 vipers, with the other 2 damaged
1 damaged Gal. location (non resource)

United Kingdom Southampton Hampshire
I'll think of something witty to put here...

ackmondual wrote: Just to grab any more last minute tweaks and suggestions (likely to a 5p game, but if we need to use exp, esp. CL and stuff, I may ask we play "as is").... As is, would you say this is prohuman or procylon?
(everything was actually scaled down to 75%)
so far, I've gotten...
starting resources... Fuel: 6 Food: 6 Morale: 7 Pop: 9
3 distance triggers sleeper phase heard an alternative for 2. Will do if this seems to be a prohuman thing
6 distance + 1 more jump = win.
3 raptors with the 4th out of the game permanently
6 vipers, with the other 2 damaged
1 damaged Gal. location (non resource)
I suspect I may have confused this thread with a 4distance variant, so in my post above having all that damage seems unusually harsh.
I'd say proCylon because it is like you've just completed your first jump and it was a 2 distance, yet you've lost 2 fuel already (should really be 1 unless things went badly), 2 food, 3 morale and 3 pop, and have a bunch of beat up ships.
Usually some of those things will have happened after 1 jump, but not all of them.


