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Stone Age: The Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: How to trade stuff rss

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Steve Duff
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sthrjo wrote:
1: A player has 1:1 trade position, a tooth, and just enough plain resources (not gold) to buy a hut (lets say the wood+brick+stone 12 vp) and a meeple on that hut. He trades the tooth into a gold, and buys the hut (without gold). In his store he momentarily has 1 gold. He must immediately return the gold to the box, since he did not use it to buy anything, and may not keep it in his store.

The trade was not legal in the first place as gold is not needed for his current move, so he was never able to receive the gold in the first place. He retains the tooth, rather than loses both the tooth and the gold.

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2: A player has 1:1 trade position, 2 teeth and a meeple on the "1-7 ?" hut. He trades 1 tooth into one gold and buys the hut and get 6 VP. He can not trade his 2:nd tooth. This is an important example of what "you can only trade once per round" really means. This is explained in a video from Essen where a salesperson shows the game in English. See "Re: Trading questions". It is not apparent in the rules in English or German.

This is correct, but I have to point out that the English rules are in fact extremely clear on this point. First of all, it clearly states in the top of the section that only a single trade may be made:

"...only trade once per round."

Trading a second tooth at 1 for 1 is clearly a second trade. Further, Each of the three trading sections repeats this, in bold.

2 for 1: "may trade 2 decorations, 2 resources, or 1 decoration and 1 resource for any 1 item"

1 for 1: "he may trade 1 decoration or any 1 resource for any 1 item"

1 for 2: "he may trade 1 decoration or any 1 resource for any 2 items"

Quote:
3: The same situation as 2 above, but he also possess 1 wood. He may buy the hut using both the traded gold and the wood. This I have gathered from the lengthy texts in German in the HiG forum http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/stone-age-mit-stil-zum-ziel/. (Technically he could buy the hut using only 1 wood and return the gold). This example shows that enhancing a buy using trade is allowed, but questionable from the rule texts in both English and German, using the word "need". I think the "need" word refers to the example 1 above, where you may not trade just for your storage.

Yes, this is all correct. The word "need" simply refers to the trade being required in order to reach the final situation you ended up in. It's not saying "could you have acquired the tile without a trade", but "was the trade needed in order to acquire the tile with the specific resources you did".

Thus, you didn't have 1 gold and 1 wood, so the trade was needed to buy it for that.

Quote:
4: A player has a 1:1 trade position, 7 gold and a tooth. and his meeple occupies the "1-7 ?" hut. He trades the tooth into a gold, and pays the hut using 6 gold from his supply and the gold from the trade. His supply has now changed from 7 gold into 1 gold, and 1 tooth into 0 tooth. Is this allowed? Can any ruling for or against this refer to some rule or example in the printed text, or some reliable source? And is the nr 3 above legal?

#4 is not legal. He did not need to make this trade, as he already had the 7 gold he used before.

This is easily proven by looking at the results if you did the trade afterwards rather than before. If you did the trade after buying, he'd have 1 gold and 0 teeth and the identical number of points, exactly what he has when he did this illegal trade before buying.
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Jeff Thornsen
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A follow up question, mostly regarding Huts where you have a choice in how you pay for it.

If I had 7 Gold, could I "Trade" a tooth for a stone and build the hut using 6 Gold and 1 Stone? I mean, I didn't need the stone to build the hut, I could have built it with just 1 Gold. By that same argument, then you can't trade to build a 1-7 Hut at all, unless you literally have no resources. That doesn't seem right but maybe that is the rule.

Another example: The hut which requires 5 resources, using 4 different types. If I have 2 Wood, 1 Brick, 1 Stone, and 1 Gold, can I trade for a Gold so I can build the hut using 2 Gold instead of 2 Wood? Or am I not allowed because I didn't need to trade in order to build that hut?

I'm trying to think of a better way to phrase the rule, but I'm not sure which is the actual correct ruling:

Option #1) You cannot trade unless it is literally impossible to build the hut without trading
Option #2) You can trade, but only for resources which you do not have, and you must use these resources to pay for a hut.
 
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Steve Duff
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Faranim wrote:
If I had 7 Gold, could I "Trade" a tooth for a stone and build the hut using 6 Gold and 1 Stone? I mean, I didn't need the stone to build the hut, I could have built it with just 1 Gold.

Another example: The hut which requires 5 resources, using 4 different types. If I have 2 Wood, 1 Brick, 1 Stone, and 1 Gold, can I trade for a Gold so I can build the hut using 2 Gold instead of 2 Wood? Or am I not allowed because I didn't need to trade in order to build that hut?

Absolutely you could do both. You wanted to build the hut the with a stone and save a gold for something else such as another hut, you didn't have a stone, so you needed to trade to make it happen.

In the second one, you wanted to use two gold, and needed to trade to do so.

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Ron Z
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Faranim wrote:
If I had 7 Gold, could I "Trade" a tooth for a stone and build the hut using 6 Gold and 1 Stone? I mean, I didn't need the stone to build the hut, I could have built it with just 1 Gold.

Another example: The hut which requires 5 resources, using 4 different types. If I have 2 Wood, 1 Brick, 1 Stone, and 1 Gold, can I trade for a Gold so I can build the hut using 2 Gold instead of 2 Wood? Or am I not allowed because I didn't need to trade in order to build that hut?

Absolutely you could do both. You wanted to build the hut the with a stone and save a gold for something else such as another hut, you didn't have a stone, so you needed to trade to make it happen.

In the second one, you wanted to use two gold, and needed to trade to do so.


I would disagree on both counts. The English rules state that you can 'only trade if needed to acquire a card or hut.' It's not what you want to use, it's what resources you currently have. My interpretation is if you already have sufficient resources to acquire a hut then you cannot trade.
 
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Steve Duff
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laphilfan wrote:
I would disagree on both counts. The English rules state that you can 'only trade if needed to acquire a card or hut.' It's not what you want to use, it's what resources you currently have. My interpretation is if you already have sufficient resources to acquire a hut then you cannot trade.

Read the first post, the publishers HiG confirm that "need" refers to making something happen that you couldn't do before the trade.
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Ron Z
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
laphilfan wrote:
I would disagree on both counts. The English rules state that you can 'only trade if needed to acquire a card or hut.' It's not what you want to use, it's what resources you currently have. My interpretation is if you already have sufficient resources to acquire a hut then you cannot trade.

Read the first post, the publishers HiG confirm that "need" refers to making something happen that you couldn't do before the trade.

I did read the first post. The OP says his interpretation came from 'gathering information from lengthy texts on the HIG forum'. Apparently you have interpreted that to mean 'the publishers HIG confirm'. Sorry, I'll wait for an official ruling from HIG or Rio Grande.
 
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Steve Duff
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laphilfan wrote:
I did read the first post. The OP says his interpretation came from 'gathering information from lengthy texts on the HIG forum'. Apparently you have interpreted that to mean 'the publishers HIG confirm'. Sorry, I'll wait for an official ruling from HIG or Rio Grande.

The posts are by HiG on the HiG forum, they're not posts by just anyone.
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Ron Z
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Fine.
 
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Jens www.spielefreun.de
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Latest comment in HiG's Stone Age forum (by the HiG-Team):

You can trade whatever you want - if you need a resource or if you already have a resource. For the 1-7 hut, you can even trade a wood for gold and then build the hut for 6 points.

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katie ludlum
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This is how we play in our group, & no one has had issues with the rules.
 
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Steve Duff
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sthrjo wrote:
If anyone like to see what is originally written and in which context, see Hans Im Glück forum "HiG, 14.02.2012 15:08:". The Golden example is "I have 7 gold and 1 wood, and would like the building with an option to pay 7 resources. I want to use 7 gold. Can I exchange 1 wood -> 1:1 gold and then buy the building with 7 gold and 1 gold held?".
The answer from HiG says "Yes"

I'm using Google translate, and I cannot see this example in that post on that page. Every example used conforms to the "trade must be needed" rules.

"Der Spieler kann nach den üblichen Regeln ein 1-7 Gebäude mit einem Holz erwerben. Hat der Spieler einen Schmuck bei sich und darf 1:1 tauschen, darf er das Gebäude für 1 Gold erwerben."
=
"The player can earn a 1-7 building with a timber according to the usual rules. If the player has a jewelry and may trade at 1:1, he may acquire the building for 1 gold."

Had 1 wood, traded for gold. Buys with gold. Trade was needed, legal move.

"Hat der Spieler ein Holz und ein Schmuck bei sich, darf er das Holz in ein Gold tauschen und damit das Gebäude erwerben, oder er tauscht den Schmuck und erwirbt das Gebäude mit einem Holz und einem Gold, oder nur mit einem Gold."
=
"If the player has a wood and an ornament with him, he must replace the wood in a gold and thus acquire the building, or he exchanged the glory, and acquires the building with a wood and gold, or only with gold."

Has wood and ornament, trades for gold, buys with wood and gold. Trade was needed, legal move. Or:
Has wood and ornament, trades for gold, buys with just gold. Trade was needed, legal move.

Which German text is showing this "I have 7 gold and 1 wood" question?
 
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