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Zulus on the Ramparts!» Forums » Rules

Subject: Does Commissary Dalton discard or replace "rifles overheat"? rss

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Chris Casinghino
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Sorry to ask another question with a probably-obvious answer, but I want to be certain: Commissary Dalton's heroic ability is to discard an iMpi marker and draw another. The FAQ suggests this can be used with "rifles overheat", which is normally returned to the cup after it is implemented. When Commissary Dalton uses his ability on a chit that normally goes back to the cup, is it discarded or returned to the cup?

Thanks!
 
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Pokey 64
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The "Rifles Overheat" chit is returned to the cup (it's always going to be in the cup). Draw another chit and put Commissary Daltons card on the discard pile. He's just made a "heroic sacrifice".
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Chris Casinghino
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panzer6 wrote:
The "Rifles Overheat" chit is returned to the cup (it's always going to be in the cup). Draw another chit and put Commissary Daltons card on the discard pile. He's just made a "heroic sacrifice".


Thanks! Did you spot this somewhere in the rules? I would have guessed that the card text overrode the general rules in the absence of clarification (but then this ability does seem very powerful).
 
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Pokey 64
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I'll defer to Mr. Miranda because each chit has a note in the rules saying where it goes after it's used. It comes down to what "discard without effect" means on Dalton's card. Most chits drawn are removed from the cup when they are discarded after use. The "Rifles Overheat" chit is returned to the cup after use. If you want me to say that the "Rifles Overheat" chit is discarded and not returned to the cup by using Dalton's card, I'm not going to be the one to say it because that would be a gamey way to get that chit out of the cup when I know it's supposed to be in the cup per the rules.

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Marc Nelson Jr.
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You can only do one of two things with chits after drawing them: discard them or return them to the cup. Dalton says you discard the chit - therefore you don't return it.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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panzer6 wrote:
I'll defer to Mr. Miranda because each chit has a note in the rules saying where it goes after it's used. It comes down to what "discard without effect" means on Dalton's card. Most chits drawn are removed from the cup when they are discarded after use. The "Rifles Overheat" chit is returned to the cup after use. If you want me to say that the "Rifles Overheat" chit is discarded and not returned to the cup by using Dalton's card, I'm not going to be the one to say it because that would be a gamey way to get that chit out of the cup when I know it's supposed to be in the cup per the rules.


If you "defer to the rules," then you would have to disregard all of the Heroic Abilities. Breaking the rules is what they do.
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Chris Casinghino
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marcnelsonjr wrote:

If you "defer to the rules," then you would have to disregard all of the Heroic Abilities. Breaking the rules is what they do.


Yes - I definitely agree that the rules/cards as written imply the chit should be discarded, not returned. One wonders if this was intended, though, since it does feel a little gamey.

I think you could actually use this to get the cup empty, and in a few rules documents it is pointed out that this will "never happen" because Rifles Overhead "always" returns to the cup. Which is what made me wonder if I'd missed a ruling somewhere in the first place.
 
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