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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game – The Redhorn Gate» Forums » Sessions

Subject: 1st Time to the Redhorn Gate (Spoilers) rss

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Derek Coon
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I just finished (won) my first time through TRG with my eagle heavy Three Hunters deck. I got pretty lucky with my early card draws - an opening hand Stewart of Gondor and Celebrian's Stone drawn on the 2nd turn - but I wasn't particularly lucky after that or with the encounter deck. (Maybe I was though, it will take a few more plays to tell.) I nearly lost Legolas to Freezing Cold Condition attachment - attached hero gets -2 WP.... No big deal right? Legolas doesn't quest anyway... Except for Quest card 3B: characters are discarded from play if their WP is ever 0. Eeeek!

Fortunately I had Landroval in play and I was able to get Legolas back and get rid of that nasty attachment too.

Snow Wargs are a biotch though and so are Mountain Trolls. (Why not some Giants from The Hobbit?) Descendant really helped me out.

If you've read Fantasy Flight's sneak peak you know that your task is to escort Arwen Undomiel over the Misty Mountains because she wants to visit Rivendell. In Winter. And the 2000+ year old elf can't wait. Oh well, I like her anyway. But here's a tidbit from the instruction sheet that I really liked: "Other copies of a card titled Arwen Undomiel cannot enter play by any means." So I have a hunch we're going to see her as a hero before the cycle is over. Btw, the Arwen ally helps to Quest with +2 WP, and adds a resource to any hero upon doing so. I didn't run into any Treacheries that punished questers I think.

Great adventure! I'll try to field any questions.
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jakub praibis
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Yes, I think it is certain, Arwen will enter again. My guess would be as an Ally. I wish they did the same for Grimbeorn but that now seems unlikely. He would fit the story line very well as he was pivotal in keeping the High Pass free from Orcs before the War of the Ring.
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jakub praibis
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What was your hero line-up and deck? I suspect you played solo. And how did you feel about certain cards working (or not) in this quest?
 
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Derek Coon
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Oops I did it again. The Three Hunters are Aragorn, Gimli & Legolas. The name is from a line in The Two Towers. The deck has nearly every eagle card there is and of course Radagast, Gandalf & Sneak Attack. There are a handful of Spirit cards as well, Galadhrim's Greeting & A Test of Will used when Celebrian's Stone is on Aragorn. Stewart of Gondor as you've seen, Faramir, Brok, Dunedain Quest & Watcher. I haven't counted, but I think I'm rather north of 50 cards and I'm trying to find the cards that are of less use so I can cull the deck down a bit.
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Derek Coon
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Just played it again. This quest isn't that hard. Fun, but not so hard. There are certainly harder DL6s in my opinion. Arwen acts as a partial hero with her 2 WP and 1 resource upon questing. Maybe I just have a good deck for it. (That would be a first.)
 
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jakub praibis
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Bullroarer Took wrote:
Oops I did it again. The Three Hunters are Aragorn, Gimli & Legolas. The name is from a line in The Two Towers. The deck has nearly every eagle card there is and of course Radagast, Gandalf & Sneak Attack. There are a handful of Spirit cards as well, Galadhrim's Greeting & A Test of Will used when Celebrian's Stone is on Aragorn. Stewart of Gondor as you've seen, Faramir, Brok, Dunedain Quest & Watcher. I haven't counted, but I think I'm rather north of 50 cards and I'm trying to find the cards that are of less use so I can cull the deck down a bit.


I feel silly. Of course I know the Three Hunters, I have missed it in your post.

If you consider cutting something out, my experience with the Dúnedain Watcher is mixed. Unlike others, I quite like the art but I find the card not that useful in my games.
 
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jakub praibis
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Bullroarer Took wrote:
Just played it again. This quest isn't that hard. Fun, but not so hard. There are certainly harder DL6s in my opinion. Arwen acts as a partial hero with her 2 WP and 1 resource upon questing. Maybe I just have a good deck for it. (That would be a first.)


I thought there could be cards dealing direct damage to the questing characters and thus people would hesitate a great deal to quest with Arwen. I have only looked quickly trhough the encounters on the database site but beside those that lower will (and thus potentially kill), there are no such encounters, right? So Arwen can really be of great help. A better Théodred even in this case.
 
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Derek Coon
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That's right, Arwen is really never in danger. Regarding Watcher, I take your point, but I like her ability to cancel a "When Revealed" effect. The Treacheries are probably the worst of this quest.
 
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Bullroarer Took wrote:
That's right, Arwen is really never in danger. Regarding Watcher, I take your point, but I like her ability to cancel a "When Revealed" effect. The Treacheries are probably the worst of this quest.


But the Watcher cancels Shadow, no?
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Yep, Dunedain Watcher does nothing against Treacheries revealed, she only works in combat.
 
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Derek Coon
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Ah yes... that's right. I think I only mis-playe her once though since I also had A Test of Will in my deck. Thanks.
 
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Oleg volobujev
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landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.
 
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Juan Crespo
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Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.


Is there an official rule on this? Someone can interpret this as being destroyed by having 0 willpower in this particular scenario. Remember that FFG's wording leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
 
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Richard Morris
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juanma99 wrote:
Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.


Is there an official rule on this? Someone can interpret this as being destroyed by having 0 willpower in this particular scenario. Remember that FFG's wording leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
Sometimes?
 
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Derek Coon
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AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
juanma99 wrote:
Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.


Is there an official rule on this? Someone can interpret this as being destroyed by having 0 willpower in this particular scenario. Remember that FFG's wording leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
Sometimes?

Yes, only sometimes. (The rules are quite clear until you read them.)

But I would like to get others' opinions on Glaurung's statement.
 
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Bullroarer Took wrote:
AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
juanma99 wrote:
Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.


Is there an official rule on this? Someone can interpret this as being destroyed by having 0 willpower in this particular scenario. Remember that FFG's wording leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
Sometimes?

Yes, only sometimes. (The rules are quite clear until you read them.)

But I would like to get others' opinions on Glaurung's statement.
Only Nate's opinion matters.
 
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Michael
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Bullroarer Took wrote:
AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
juanma99 wrote:
Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.


Is there an official rule on this? Someone can interpret this as being destroyed by having 0 willpower in this particular scenario. Remember that FFG's wording leaves a lot to be desired sometimes.
Sometimes?

Yes, only sometimes. (The rules are quite clear until you read them.)

But I would like to get others' opinions on Glaurung's statement.


I'd go with your ruling. Totally fine to use Landroval's ability in this case! Thematically, it makes even more sense than in many other scenarios. It's getting cold on the mountain, eagle comes and lifts the poor wood elf out of danger zone. Ok, a blizzard would make it tough on Landroval, but it's not harder than taking a sacked and slowly roasted hero away from trolls or suddenly appearing to rescue a hero from the certain death by troll club, hummerhorn stings or whatnot...
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Bart Rachemoss
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Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.

Are you saying that in this case Fortune or Fate works fine but Landroval does not?

I can see where you would get this:
Rulebook page 9 wrote:
Ally cards are played from a player’s hand, and they remain in play until they are destroyed or removed from play by a card effect.

Rulebook page 18 wrote:
The remaining value is the amount of damage that must immediately be dealt to the defending character, possibly destroying that character ...

However in the game overview, they say:
Rulebook page 4 wrote:
A player is eliminated from the game if all of his heroes are destroyed, or if his threat level reaches 50.

Also, on page 20 in the section called "Hit Points and Damage", they talk about cards (characters and enemies) being "defeated" when their damage equals their hit points but they don't use with word destroyed. Unfortunately, while the word "defeated" is clear (and obvious), the word "destroyed" is not. Does it mean defeated? Does it mean defeated as the result of an attack? Or does it mean "leaves play"?

When I put on my rules-lawyer hat, ISTM the only way all these statements are consistent is if "destroyed" is synonymous with "is removed from play" which is also the common sense interpretation. Otherwise, if Legolas is removed from play but not destroyed then the player won't lose even if his other two heroes get bumped off.

OTOH, it might be more thematic if Landroval is limited to only saving heroes who die in combat.

 
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Rauli Kettunen
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BitJam wrote:
Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.

Are you saying that in this case Fortune or Fate works fine but Landroval does not?


I would say yes, FoF doesn't care how the hero got into the discard pile (maybe he was discarded from the deck, what, you had a fourth hero there ?), it just moves a hero from discard back into play. Landroval has a much more specific ability, keying off destroyed.

If you allow Landy to save Legolas in this case, then you also allow him to save Boromir after he uses his suicide ability (which is also only discard).

Are the full Encounter/Quest spoilers up for RHG? People just throw out of the player card spoilers (which I personally don't care about at all, I buy the packs for the quests). Having the full wording on 3B might (or might not) shed more light on the matter.
 
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Derek Coon
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I'll be happy to quote the cards this evening. (My time. )

I can see both sides of this and agree that only Nate's opinion matters once we get it.
 
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Juan Crespo
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Dam the Man wrote:
BitJam wrote:
Glaurung2 wrote:
landroval cannot save your Legolas from be discarded. He can only save him when he is destroyed. When hero get damage and discard this mean destroyed. But if hero just discarded to by card effect when he have 0 will power Landroval cannot do nothing.

Are you saying that in this case Fortune or Fate works fine but Landroval does not?


I would say yes, FoF doesn't care how the hero got into the discard pile (maybe he was discarded from the deck, what, you had a fourth hero there ?), it just moves a hero from discard back into play. Landroval has a much more specific ability, keying off destroyed.

If you allow Landy to save Legolas in this case, then you also allow him to save Boromir after he uses his suicide ability (which is also only discard).

Are the full Encounter/Quest spoilers up for RHG? People just throw out of the player card spoilers (which I personally don't care about at all, I buy the packs for the quests). Having the full wording on 3B might (or might not) shed more light on the matter.


They are all already uploaded with their images at cardgamedb.com
 
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Derek Coon
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BitJam wrote:
OTOH, it might be more thematic if Landroval is limited to only saving heroes who die in combat.


Hmmm, well... Gandalf & Bilbo et. al. were saved from burning up in a tree.
 
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It was already discuss before in time when landroval just came. Maybe even have official answer from Nate but im not sure.....

Anyway when card is discarded, card going to discard pile. In the case of Boromir abilitiy you discard him and is doesn mean HE is DESTROYED!

Destroy is mean discarded by the lethal damage when hero or ally or Enemy have no life points.

Landroval Ability say clear: DESTROED not DISCARDED!

SO he cannot help if hero i just discarded but can help in case when hero is destroyed. Until now we still dont have any encounter cards with Destroy so it means hero is destroyed and discarded to discard pile when his life points come to zero.This mean Destroyed.

But if you discard hero by some ability (his own or by any other card effect) is mean DISCARD what is clear.
Discard is mean hero is not dead he is tired or lost in the journey and so on. But Destroy is mean he is dead and discarded cose there is no life point anymore. But anyway you can bring him back by Fortune or Fate.

If you still doubt check it out on official FFG forum.
And sorry for my English i try do my best.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Glaurung2 wrote:
If you still doubt check it out on official FFG forum.

I searched Google(site:www.fantasyflightgames.com/ landroval destroyed) and found nothing conclusive. It seemed that more people felt that discarded is not destroyed but it was argued both ways. Here is an example:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...

IMO if the Landroval text had used the word "defeated" instead of "destroyed" then it would have been more clear. The rulebook said a player is eliminated when all their heroes are destroyed. They also said a player is eliminated when all their heroes are killed. ISTM that if you have one or more heroes in the discard pile that were not killed or destroyed then the only way you can lose is if your threat reaches 50.
 
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Derek Coon
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I found the 'Discarded vs Destroyed' thread, but I did not find consensus. Not your fault. Guess I'll email Nate.
 
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