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Subject: The BJ Lillo Memorial Thread rss

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What happened?
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Matthew M
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I remember when he used his "chidler" account to post while serving a suspension with his main account. I remember it because it was a stupid thing to do and I wish he hadn't done it.

Moved to Complaints Dept.
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Drew1365 wrote:
It is with deep regret that I inform you that Mr. BJ Lillo, a good friend of ours, is gone forever. A strong and powerful voice for conservatism and a faithful friend of the State of Wisconsin has been silenced.

Please use this thread to share your memories of all the good times had with the esteemed Mr. Lillo. If you ever shared a game with Mr. Lillo -- or a bed, . . . Jarred -- join me in celebrating our fallen comrade!


I'll miss him. Contrary to what Tripp thinks, I don't want the voices that disagree with me silenced, and I actually like BJ. Bullshit call by Octavian, as per the norm.
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Well he never gave me a blow job, if that is what you mean.
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Dave G
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Octavian wrote:
I remember when he used his "chidler" account to post while serving a suspension with his main account. I remember it because it was a stupid thing to do and I wish he hadn't done it.

Moved to Complaints Dept.


Fuck that, Matt. The Chidler account was never about getting around the suspension and you know it.
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Man, he was one of the few conservatives I could sort of stand.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Damn. How is Jarred supposed to "reveal all" when this thread is stuck languishing in the Complaint Department? He'll never see it here!

This shall be the one and ONLY time I agree with Drew. This should not have been moved so quickly. I am feeling as if my life has no meaning!
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I'm often a political opponent of BJ's, as I have made a major political shift personally.

But BJ has been a faithful friend despite the disparate opinions we hold. I've gone to the gun range with him, which was awesome--even though it's not something a 'lefty' ought to enjoy.

I've shared countless premium beers, peated whiskey and scotch, and hours of table time with BJ and his family. It's something which I cherish, and I regret that he'll not have an active account on the geek.

I think it's hilarious that once in RSP BJ was called a 'hippie'. That still makes me laugh, and I continue to call him that on occasion to push his buttons.

Heck, he's a loyal Minnesota Vikings fan, and I am DIEHARD4LIFE for Brett's sake... how are we friends? Well, I guess I appreciate diverse opinions and the challenge of being called out at times. I don't pretend to understand all things anymore, or to hold fast to a coherent political position. I don't. So I am thankful to know folks with big hearts and passionate opinions like BJ Lillo.

He'll be missed on the geek, but at least I can see him regularly in person...
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Geez, I was actually worried he had passed away for a minute there. Now I see this is just another installment in our "who just got banned, why this is a great injustice/best thing ever and how Octavian et al are abominations/beneficent overlords/just doing a job" series of threads. Whose turn is it to provide a full account of what happened?
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I am not a fan of strict adherence to artificial rules for their own sake. Matt, I'd ask you to reconsider this decision, which is within your power to change. A ban of some kind may be in order, but a perma-ban seems extreme and unnecessary in this case.
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Octavian wrote:

Moved to Complaints Dept.


I read the OP several times. Nowhere did Drew voice a complaint. Is this something you want to keep people from knowing? BJ was an active participant in the RSP forum and as such posting this thread in the forum where he was best known makes sense. Oh, wait.... duh... it makes sense to leave it in RSP - which is exactly why it ended up here. My bad.
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Drew1365 wrote:
The Message wrote:
Now I see this is just another installment in our "who just got banned, . . .


This time, it's a little different.


Should we take that as volunteering to fill everyone in on what just happened?
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The Message wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
The Message wrote:
Now I see this is just another installment in our "who just got banned, . . .


This time, it's a little different.


Should we take that as volunteering to fill everyone in on what just happened?


You are quite welcome to join about 30 of us in our super-secret-need-to-know-only-red-stripe-hush-hush alternate RSP group where BJ is free to say or do as he pleases with zero moderation. If someone doesn't like the intensity they can just leave. And several have. Of course when you do leave you become a corpse that is mangled and chewed and shat upon and ridiculed mercilessly by the remaining pack. Well, actually, that's what happens if you don't leave as well. So I guess if you really want to talk freely about anything on BGG then that "other place" is where you can.

You can also participate in threads ranging from hating Jews to hating Ayerabs to oral sex and politics and the threads never derail and people get really, really nasty and say all sorts of terrible things about each other (I called several people ball-sucking dick lickers and despite the fact that it was not true and was meant to demean, they took it like the real men they are and said awful things about me in return). Just to clarify, I never called Josh a dick-licker, but I have ridiculed him and demeaned him because he's totally OCD about grammar.

Wait... were we lamenting the passing of BJ from the hallowed halls of BGG? So what? He's alive and well and in a much better place. Kind of like Barnes.
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The Message wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
The Message wrote:
Now I see this is just another installment in our "who just got banned, . . .


This time, it's a little different.


Should we take that as volunteering to fill everyone in on what just happened?


BJ was in the middle of a posting suspension when he used a different account to post on the site. The site rules explicitly prohibit doing this (for reasons that I hope would be obvious) and the consequence of doing it is having your account locked indefinitely.

The consequence of getting around a posting suspension is re-iterated in every note one receives when being moderated.

If I were to break that rule this would be one of the rare times I'd want to. I think BJ is a great guy. I've had the pleasure to meet him in person, joke with him, and game with him. But I can't let my personal feelings interfere with my job.

We don't expect everyone to agree with our rules. We do expect people to follow them whether they agree with them or not. If you have so little respect for the rules of the site that you will undermine the enforcement of those rules then you aren't welcome on the site anymore.

-MMM



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So he was suspended for something, posted under an "alternate" Chiddler account and then was perma-banned from his actual account? Is it really that simple or are there links missing from the chain?

Edit: Ninja'd by a coherent response. (Well, less "ninja'd" and more "probably shouldn't space out for so long when typing such short posts")

Octavian, thank you for the explanation. Is there any way this could possibly be turned into a less harsh sentence or is that completely out of the question?

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Yeah, I couldn't handle RSP or the alternative. But it is a place for BJ to live, thrive and be celebrated.

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The Message wrote:
So he was suspended for something, posted under an "alternate" Chiddler account and then was perma-banned from his actual account? Is it really that simple or are there links missing from the chain?



That's it.

For the curious, the alt account is:

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Octavian wrote:
The Message wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
The Message wrote:
Now I see this is just another installment in our "who just got banned, . . .


This time, it's a little different.


Should we take that as volunteering to fill everyone in on what just happened?


BJ was in the middle of a posting suspension when he used a different account to post on the site. The site rules explicitly prohibit doing this (for reasons that I hope would be obvious) and the consequence of doing it is having your account locked indefinitely.

The consequence of getting around a posting suspension is re-iterated in every note one receives when being moderated.

If I were to break that rule this would be one of the rare times I'd want to. I think BJ is a great guy. I've had the pleasure to meet him in person, joke with him, and game with him. But I can't let my personal feelings interfere with my job.

We don't expect everyone to agree with our rules. We do expect people to follow them whether they agree with them or not. If you have so little respect for the rules of the site that you will undermine the enforcement of those rules then you aren't welcome on the site anymore.

-MMM





Matt, I get what the intent of your decision was, and I respect the idea of following rules. I run a major business unit in a corporation, and I've served as a military officer, so I certainly get the concept of rules and consequences. Having said that, I also follow the notion that rigid enforcement of rules without exception can also be counterproductive. In this case, BJ's use of the sock puppet was not done maliciously or with intent to spam the site, which are the concerns that prompt the creation of such a rule. For someone who has been a significant site contributor and who has done nothing to harm the site, I would think a punishment could be negotiated that would send the appropriate message to BJ without depriving the site of his continued participation.

Sometimes bending the rules or making an exception can work out for the best. I hope you reconsider your decision in this case and find another way to achieve your aim without costing the site a good member.
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Octavian wrote:

We don't expect everyone to agree with our rules. We do expect people to follow them whether they agree with them or not. If you have so little respect for the rules of the site that you will undermine the enforcement of those rules then you aren't welcome on the site anymore.

-MMM



Whatever.

One thing I'm sure we'll all agree on is that you are in control. Until, of course, you're not.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
In this case, BJ's use of the sock puppet was not done maliciously or with intent to spam the site, which are the concerns that prompt the creation of such a rule.


The purpose of the rule is that posting suspensions are useless if there is no penalty for just making a new account to get around them. BJ wanted to say something, couldn't because of his existing suspension, so used a separate account to do it. That is exactly why the rule prohibiting what he did is in place.

I fully understand your meaning about not rigidly adhering to the rules just for their sake. IMO, this is not a situation where it applies. If he were a user I didn't know at all I would have had no qualms about locking the account. I can't let my personal like of BJ get in that way of that here, then.

-MMM
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Apparently everyone's taken for granted the fact that RSP is a privilege. I can understand that since BGG has become a de facto social networking site, friendships and adversarial relationships are going to form, and that Off Topic conversations are bound to spring up, but this is still first and foremost a board game site. If you all want to post whatever you want, whenever you want without having to worry about being censored or banned, start your own site. If RSP disappeared overnight, I wouldn't shed a tear. The only people mourning BJ's ban are RSP fanatics that can't seem to understand that he evaded a ban, whether intentional or unintentional. Them's the breaks, but BJ knows how to read. He's a grown man and made the choice on his own to sign in and post with his alt account. He's nobody to blame but himself.
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Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman round here?
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This sucks. I was on facebook once when BJ was stuck in a hotel due to a storm. We talked about boardgames and beer. Seemed like one of those guys I would like in spite of his politics. I hope this gets overturned. Seems extreme to me, although it also seems he did something very silly.
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Octavian wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
In this case, BJ's use of the sock puppet was not done maliciously or with intent to spam the site, which are the concerns that prompt the creation of such a rule.


The purpose of the rule is that posting suspensions are useless if there is no penalty for just making a new account to get around them. BJ wanted to say something, couldn't because of his existing suspension, so used a separate account to do it. That is exactly why the rule prohibiting what he did is in place.

I fully understand your meaning about not rigidly adhering to the rules just for their sake. IMO, this is not a situation where it applies. If he were a user I didn't know at all I would have had no qualms about locking the account. I can't let my personal like of BJ get in that way of that here, then.

-MMM


Well, Matt, I respect your response, even if I do not entirely agree with it. I do hope that the wording that you used in your previous post, that of 'locking indefinitely' (as opposed to 'locking permanently'), provides you sufficient wiggle room to allow for an eventual return of BJ under whatever circumstances would warrant such a return. I hope you find it possible for such a circumstance to come to pass.
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Octavian wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
In this case, BJ's use of the sock puppet was not done maliciously or with intent to spam the site, which are the concerns that prompt the creation of such a rule.


The purpose of the rule is that posting suspensions are useless if there is no penalty for just making a new account to get around them. BJ wanted to say something, couldn't because of his existing suspension, so used a separate account to do it. That is exactly why the rule prohibiting what he did is in place.

I fully understand your meaning about not rigidly adhering to the rules just for their sake. IMO, this is not a situation where it applies. If he were a user I didn't know at all I would have had no qualms about locking the account. I can't let my personal like of BJ get in that way of that here, then.

-MMM

Octavian;

I'm not going to comment on the perma-ban; it's not my place one way or the other. If I can summarize my perception of the implicit concerns expressed (IMO not as well as they might be) on this thread concerning this action, I would say as follows: the perception at least is that for a given violation X committed, a political conservative (like BJ) is more likely to have that action X noticed as an identical violation than a political liberal.

To allay this concern, can you say of the last 10 permanently banned users whose ban involved RSP activity, how many were roughly conservatives and how many liberals? If the numbers do in fact indicate a marked disparity, can it be addressed in some manner?

Again, I'm making no accusations myself but I think if I understand correctly the situation that this perception of disparity lies at the heart of the issue.
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hskrfn822 wrote:
Apparently everyone's taken for granted the fact that RSP is a privilege.


BS.

BGG is privileged to have users, not the other way around. This is a site that uses its members as a consumer base for it's advertisers to sell shit to. The "social aspects" are just the wrapping in order for Aldie, Monin and the entourage of paid staffers to use so they can turn a buck.

Nothing wrong with that, I'm a capitalist myself. But it's no more a privilege to use BGG than it is to buy a Chevy or a hamburger. The "reality" is that BGG wants to control it's user base and losing several thousand bucks a year from people like me (and a few hundred others I know of) who have ceased donating and refuse to click on ads must be meaningless. Which means there's a lot more money being made here than most people would imagine.

BGG owes it's users, we don't owe these guys anything. They need us or they'll have to go back to writing tiny blocks of code for games that are never released or working in some lab buried in a university basement somewhere.
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