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Subject: Can Wall of Earth block a Punch? rss

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Adam Brant
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I couldn't find anywhere in the rules that said that a Punch is a LOS attack. Additionally, the fire punch card or whatever it's called shows the Wizard Symbol and not an Eye symbol.

The Wall of Earth spell says it can not be used to block non-LOS attacks.

By the rules that we could find, it appears as though Wall of Earth can not be used to block punches because a punch is a non-LOS. However, this doesn't make sense. Clearly you would/should need LOS to perform a punch or punch based attacks even though it's technically not a LOS attack.

Surely you should able to throw up a wall of earth between you and the puncher.

Can Wall of Earth block a Punch attack such as a normal punch or a Fists of Fire?
 
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oldschoolgamr
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Fire Punch has the wizard symbol because you cast it on your yourself to get the ole' Fist o' Flame...

The Rules say you can punch someone in your square or in an adjacent square... page. 8 AND "For a target to be adjacent, the caster must not only have clear line of sight to it, but he must also be in the same square or in a square next to the target."

While the above does use the word "caster" I wonder if this would also apply to "puncher" by default. Wall of Earth stoppoing a punch makes sense to me - and since adjacent attacks require LOS, than doesn't Wall of Earth then apply?

That would make sense to me, but others on the board have comvinced me of lot of other things I originally was against...

Thanks.
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Chris Dieckmann
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Think of it a sucker punch. Who expects the mighty wizard to use his hands as a weapon? My hands are my trade as a character of mine once said in a DnD game. I can't be pulling levers, or turning door knobs. I think that punches circumvent walls, if fire punch works like a punch than that should as well. But that is just my opinion
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Adam Brant
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one vote for, one vote against.

As i said, it does make sense that you 'should' be able to block a punch with with Wall of Fire, BUT, the card says it can not block non-LOS attacks. Even though the punch requires LOS, it is not considered (at least the fire Punch isn't) a LOS attack since it doesn't carry the EYE icon.

Let's hear more.
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oldschoolgamr
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Just went throught the cards - are you refering to Fire Cloak? That is actually an ITEM... so the symbol is refering to the fact that you "cast" it to produce the item... It is not even an attack card (symbol is yellow not red...).

Or am I missing something here - Not recognizing "Fists of Fire"...

FYI.
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Play with whatever rules make it more fun. This sure as heck won't break the game.
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oldschoolgamr
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True... This kind of fogginess does however nearly break the game when your buddy triumphantly throws a Wall of Earth to bock a punch and keep him in the game and you say - "That doesn't block a punch - sorry." If only one or two of these moments come up it shouldn't be that bad, but constant rule "correcting" can get frustrating for someone who thinks they are working toward a specific outcome based on how they think the rules work and are then later told otherwise...

So, I like to hear specific opinions and decide what makes sense to me. Then when I teach the game I use that same logic to describe how the card/actions in general can be played... If everyone knows up front what the possibilities are it makes it way easier to have fun versus deciding what is the most fun at the junction of the decision - which usually ends up a winning call for one and a losing call for others. If that ending is unexpected then the fun is much lower for sure...
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Adam Brant
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oldschoolgamr wrote:
Just went throught the cards - are you refering to Fire Cloak? That is actually an ITEM... so the symbol is referring to the fact that you "cast" it to produce the item... It is not even an attack card (symbol is yellow not red...).

Or am I missing something here - Not recognizing "Fists of Fire"...

FYI.


It could be that card. The picture is a flaming fist. I'm not sure of the name of the card as I didn't have it, it was cast against me. Can you confirm? It was not my copy we played.

Even if it's an item, the type of attack used while it is carried would be a punch attack so my question still stands....sort of. I guess the question then becomes: "Is a punch attack considered a Line of Sight attack?"

Now that I've rephrased my question based on your information, I think I have 'my' answer. Which is: since it "requires" line of Sight, it is considered a line of sight attack, which then means wall of earth can be used to counter it.
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Noel

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A giant wall of earth erupting from the ground fast enough to intercept a punch is infinitely more fun than just getting punched. My vote goes to the wall winning. Always default to the rule "more fun = better than"
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Matt Shinners
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neufpas wrote:
A giant wall of earth erupting from the ground fast enough to intercept a punch is infinitely more fun than just getting punched. My vote goes to the wall winning. Always default to the rule "more fun = better than"


This is my feeling. The game's quick and fun. If you're about to make a ruling that feels like it would stop said fun, don't.
 
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Sebastian Grawan
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I've posted the same question today, too - and promptly got an reply by Tom Jolly:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/775549/the-fine-art-of-w...

 
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Adam Brant
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rashktah wrote:
I've posted the same question today, too - and promptly got an reply by Tom Jolly:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/775549/the-fine-art-of-w...



I saw that. Is the wording on Wall of Stone the same as Wall of Earth?
 
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Dom Rougier
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A punch is an adjacent attack.

Adjacent attacks have LOS as a requirement (i.e., you're not adjacent through a closed door or solid wall).

Wall of Earth could therefore block LOS to a punch in an adjacent space, but not from a wizard sharing the same space.

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Adam Brant
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The text on Wall of Earth doesn't say it can block adjacent attacks that require line of sight.

Is says it can only block attacks with the "eye" icon. In other words, a line of sight attack only. Non-eye attacks can not be blocked.

Is a punch considered a Line of Sight attack? Requiring line of sight isn't really the same thing, imo.

I'm really being trivial at this point I suppose. Thing is, last night I was veto'd 2 to 1 that I couldn't use my Wall of Earth to block a punch because the punch wasn't a line of sight attack (didn't have an eye icon).
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GamerAtom wrote:
The text on Wall of Earth doesn't say it can block adjacent attacks that require line of sight.

Is says it can only block attacks with the "eye" icon. In other words, a line of sight attack only. Non-eye attacks can not be blocked.

Is a punch considered a Line of Sight attack? Requiring line of sight isn't really the same thing, imo.

I'm really being trivial at this point I suppose. Thing is, last night I was veto'd 2 to 1 that I couldn't use my Wall of Earth to block a punch because the punch wasn't a line of sight attack (didn't have an eye icon).


However 'Wall of Earth' does block lightning bolt (which will reverse direction) which unfortunately does not have the eye symbol either.
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The lightning is an unfortunate inconsistency. If you follow the card and apply the rules, it should not be blocked but surprisingly it is an example in the rule book.
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Chris Dieckmann
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I agree with this if you are in the same space no adjacent space yes.
 
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Quote:
I agree with this if you are in the same space no adjacent space yes.

That is what I was thinking as well...

Cool.
 
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Sebastian Grawan
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GamerAtom wrote:
rashktah wrote:
I've posted the same question today, too - and promptly got an reply by Tom Jolly:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/775549/the-fine-art-of-w...



I saw that. Is the wording on Wall of Stone the same as Wall of Earth?
I meant the same, but somehow managed to type 'Wall of Stone' instead of 'Wall of Earth'.
 
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Tom Jolly
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Wall of Earth can, indeed, block a punch IF the attacker who is punching you is in an adjacent space such that the wall can be cast on the line between you. If the attacker is in the same space, it won't do you any good at all.

All the card says about limitations is that it can't block against non-LOS attacks. It does NOT state that it doesn't work against adjacent physical attacks (which are, by default, LOS).

TJ
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Tom Jolly
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GamerAtom wrote:
one vote for, one vote against.

As i said, it does make sense that you 'should' be able to block a punch with with Wall of Fire, BUT, the card says it can not block non-LOS attacks. Even though the punch requires LOS, it is not considered (at least the fire Punch isn't) a LOS attack since it doesn't carry the EYE icon.

Let's hear more.


Interesting. As I mentioned in my prior post, an attack from an adjacent space or the same space is, by default, an LOS attack, although, to your credit, this is not specified in the rules.

Tom
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Cavetroll wrote:
Wall of Earth can, indeed, block a punch IF the attacker who is punching you is in an adjacent space such that the wall can be cast on the line between you. If the attacker is in the same space, it won't do you any good at all.

All the card says about limitations is that it can't block against non-LOS attacks. It does NOT state that it doesn't work against adjacent physical attacks (which are, by default, LOS).

TJ


Makes sense, card only says attack and is therefore appliable to physical as well as magical attacks. But since cards seems to be meant to be interpreted literally what happend in the lightning bolt case?

Ronaldo wrote:
The lightning is an unfortunate inconsistency. If you follow the card and apply the rules, it should not be blocked but surprisingly it is an example in the rule book.


Is it the exception that proves the rule or is there some general principle (more than common sense) that allows WoE to block the bolt. Or is it a misprint? i.e. should the lightning bolt have had the EYE symbol?

I am just asking to have some general principle of how to interpret the cards/rules by the next time a similar case appears. Maybe it is time to start house ruling...
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Cavetroll wrote:
GamerAtom wrote:
one vote for, one vote against.

As i said, it does make sense that you 'should' be able to block a punch with with Wall of Fire, BUT, the card says it can not block non-LOS attacks. Even though the punch requires LOS, it is not considered (at least the fire Punch isn't) a LOS attack since it doesn't carry the EYE icon.

Let's hear more.


Interesting. As I mentioned in my prior post, an attack from an adjacent space or the same space is, by default, an LOS attack, although, to your credit, this is not specified in the rules.

Tom


Thanks for the response Tom. Perhaps it should be added to the next FAQ?
 
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Tom Jolly
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Thargorx wrote:
Cavetroll wrote:
Wall of Earth can, indeed, block a punch IF the attacker who is punching you is in an adjacent space such that the wall can be cast on the line between you. If the attacker is in the same space, it won't do you any good at all.

All the card says about limitations is that it can't block against non-LOS attacks. It does NOT state that it doesn't work against adjacent physical attacks (which are, by default, LOS).

TJ


Makes sense, card only says attack and is therefore appliable to physical as well as magical attacks. But since cards seems to be meant to be interpreted literally what happend in the lightning bolt case?

Ronaldo wrote:
The lightning is an unfortunate inconsistency. If you follow the card and apply the rules, it should not be blocked but surprisingly it is an example in the rule book.


The Lightning will be covered extensively in the next FAQ FFG puts out. Treat it like an LOS spell, however.
Tom

Is it the exception that proves the rule or is there some general principle (more than common sense) that allows WoE to block the bolt. Or is it a misprint? i.e. should the lightning bolt have had the EYE symbol?

I am just asking to have some general principle of how to interpret the cards/rules by the next time a similar case appears. Maybe it is time to start house ruling...
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Brett Thomason
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It can't block it as a punch is an adjacent attack not a LOS attack. Secondly, I believe counters can only be cast in response to spells? In which case it's not even a valid question in the first place
 
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