Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
49 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Rex: Final Days of an Empire» Forums » General

Subject: Better board design? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Why number the areas when using multiples of the same number?

It seems ridiculous that they could not have thought this through a bit more.

So you have this huge fleet that is going to move 1-6 regions... so why not use arrows if they need to indicate the movement instead of having players confuse areas and regions when deciding how far to move the fleet?

Tell me I am stupid and missing something (have only perused the rules).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Hancock
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The numbers also help you find where the influence drops.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Kubik
msg tools
mbmbmb
Well the key thing is that certain areas are considered closer to each other so the fleet can bombared them at the same time, the splitting has to do with the fact that each area has a unique feature either a shield, or influence for example.

My only beef with the board is that during play the numbers get covered up and so we end up having to constantly complain to each other about that and its kind of annoying. It would have been better if they placed the number by the shield/influence icons.

Its not the best design I have ever seen but I have seen worse thats for sure.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fluff Da Sheep
Belgium
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The fleet moves (and bombards) per sector number, not per area.

A sector can cover 1 or 2 areas. These areas have the same sector number. If the fleet bombards a sector with more than one area, all areas sharing that sector number get bombarded at the same time. (Obviously, if it bombards a sector containing only one area, only that area gets bombarded.)

So yeah, they did think it through well enough.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Rouse
United States
Thibodaux
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You're stupid! (This insult provided per your request.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luis Fernandez
Venezuela
Caracas
Miranda
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yesterday i received mine (at last)

and wonder about the Board, it isn´t that uggly, but for a wargame you expect something like a area map, but since the game doesn´t bring miniatures for factions, these circular locations are great for building pools and don´t confusing by a thin limit line. I guess is about game design and the psychological effect on gamers, i shall try the game this weekend and tell my experience.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Mistiaen
Belgium
Brussels
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
have only perused the rules

You should know them very well, then. (Hence, see Adam's comment above.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Stahler Jr.
United States
Wheelock
Vermont
flag msg tools
Check out Truesight and other award-winning fiction at davidstahlerjr.com!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just got my copy yesterday, too. After all the complaints about the board, I was expecting to hate it, but I think it actually looks pretty cool. The illustrations in each area are very evocative and space opera-ish and the board seems very functional overall and not as busy as I was expecting from just seeing the thumbnail photos.

People have to remember that REX isn't (or doesn't seem to be) a wargame but rather a diplomacy game with combat elements.

Then again, I haven't played the game yet. Nor have I played Dune or Arkham, which seems to be the source for a lot of the comparison complaints. So maybe my opinion will change. But from a pure aesthetics POV, I like it just fine.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Can we all agree that they could have numbered the areas and lettered the sectors or some such thing instead of having a confusing double number here and not there. There are easier ways to accomplish the same task... and this is my belief after being told what the functions of the numbers are.

(Insert FFG rushing products out and being lazy game designers rant here).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
Can we all agree that they could have numbered the areas and lettered the sectors or some such thing instead of having a confusing double number here and not there. There are easier ways to accomplish the same task... and this is my belief after being told what the functions of the numbers are.

(Insert FFG rushing products out and being lazy game designers rant here).


Although I think the board doesn't look nearly as bad in person as it does in the photos here, I also agree that the board could have been designed in a way that would not only be more aesthetically pleasing but would also make it easier to tell which locations are being bombarded (something more similar to the Dune board, for instance).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
Can we all agree that they could have numbered the areas and lettered the sectors or some such thing instead of having a confusing double number here and not there. There are easier ways to accomplish the same task... and this is my belief after being told what the functions of the numbers are.

(Insert FFG rushing products out and being lazy game designers rant here).

Well, it may be a matter of personal perception. I've never been confused by it, and I'm not sure how numbering the areas and lettering the sectors would have been any less confusing.

Is it worth pointing out that areas in the same sector both have the same colored border around the sector? IE, both Sectory 18 spaces have a purple border (and number), both Sectory 3's have a light blue, etc.

I can see how people may not like the board, but I never found it confusing myself.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
United States
Astoria
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
Can we all agree that they could have numbered the areas and lettered the sectors or some such thing instead of having a confusing double number here and not there.

No.

Quote:
There are easier ways to accomplish the same task...

Propose an easier way, so we can evaluate it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Kubik
msg tools
mbmbmb
Luisjoey wrote:
Yesterday i received mine (at last)

and wonder about the Board, it isn´t that uggly, but for a wargame you expect something like a area map, but since the game doesn´t bring miniatures for factions, these circular locations are great for building pools and don´t confusing by a thin limit line. I guess is about game design and the psychological effect on gamers, i shall try the game this weekend and tell my experience.


I think thé point to be made here is that REX really isn't a war game at all and playing it as such is probobly the most direct route to loosing at it horrifically that one could take.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
There are easier ways to accomplish the same task...

Propose an easier way, so we can evaluate it.[/q]

I did.

When people see cards with numbers and numbered spaces, some will do the math and drop it.

When some see cards with numbers, they will ignore the numbered spaces and count the movement from space to space.

This is confusing.

Have the regions lettered and the spaces numbered. Problem solved.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
There are easier ways to accomplish the same task...

Propose an easier way, so we can evaluate it.


I did.

When people see cards with numbers and numbered spaces, some will do the math and drop it.

When some see cards with numbers, they will ignore the numbered spaces and count the movement from space to space.

This is confusing.

Have the regions lettered and the spaces numbered. Problem solved.

What does numbering the individual spaces accomplish? The individual spaces don't really play much into any sort of ordering, other than their grouping with the sectors (regions).

Plus, moving from space to space is how you SHOULD do it, since the bombardment destroys everything (non-shielded) in its path.

Maybe I'm dense, but I'm not really seeing what the source of the confusion is. Aesthetically pleasing or not, it's fairly simple to see the 1->2->3->4->5->6->... flow without too much effort. But perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
From the description, it isn't apparent if the fleet moves through BOTH 18's or just 1 of those 18's. Why confuse?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Williams
Canada
Mississauga
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
I'm pretty sure the reason they numbered the spaces by sector was in an attempt to make the sector/territory distinction less confusing (along with the border colours and so on.) Each space is still distinct for being in its own border, so no secondary enumeration was really needed.

I don't find the Rex board at all confusing. Then again, I was also never confused by the difference between sectors and territories on the Dune map, which I gather a lot of people were.

I guess this whole thread just goes to show that some mechanics will always be confusing to some people, no matter what you do about it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the board myself. YMMV.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
From the description, it isn't apparent if the fleet moves through BOTH 18's or just 1 of those 18's. Why confuse?

Page 9 - A sector is "a Collection of spaces that share the same number and color. The dreadnought fleet moves from sector to sector, affecting each space within it."

The description on page 12 about moving the Bombardment fleet also refers to Sectors, so the definition remains the same.

IE, I'm still not seeing where the confusion is - the definition of what a sector is is pretty explicit. But as stated above, everyone groks things in different ways.

I guess my main point is that I disagree with the comment of "wouldn't everyone agree", as I certainly don't agree.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Rouse
United States
Thibodaux
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If it didn't move through both 18s, why have two 18s? What would the second one even mean? It would basically be a non-number because it moves from one number to the next, not from one number to the next unless there is another of the same number in line. The rules explain it clearly.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris M
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not exactly sure where this confusion is coming from about sectors. When the fleet moves during the bombardment phase it moves sector to sector, not space to space. So it can hit more then one area at once with each movement. They used sectors to show that some areas are closer together then others and thus get bombarded together. So even though there are almost 30 individual spaces on the board, the fleet can hit all of them in 18 moves.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Evan
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You know what's really confusing, is there are numbers on the sectors, but also numbers on the battle dials. Am I required to commit the same number of units as the number of the sector that they're fighting in? FFG really didn't think that one though, they should have instead expressed combat strength in binary or something.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
Willi B wrote:
From the description, it isn't apparent if the fleet moves through BOTH 18's or just 1 of those 18's. Why confuse?

Page 9 - A sector is "a Collection of spaces that share the same number and color. The dreadnought fleet moves from sector to sector, affecting each space within it."

The description on page 12 about moving the Bombardment fleet also refers to Sectors, so the definition remains the same.

IE, I'm still not seeing where the confusion is - the definition of what a sector is is pretty explicit. But as stated above, everyone groks things in different ways.

I guess my main point is that I disagree with the comment of "wouldn't everyone agree", as I certainly don't agree.


What I am saying is that not everyone that sits at a table READS THE RULEBOOK. It is not apparent from looking at the card of 4 movement and knowing whether the fleet moves through 4 individual spaces or 4 sectors. If it were on the card that it moves 4 sectors or the base of the mini model itself, it would be apparent to the people learning the game.

If the sectors were numbered and the influence drop spots were lettered, you take away any confusion because when you add 4 to the movement, there is no question of sectors or spaces... because they are clearly delineated.

And, if your response is, "I didn't have a problem understanding it" and you don't add anything productive to the conversation, please do not post.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Willi B wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Willi B wrote:
From the description, it isn't apparent if the fleet moves through BOTH 18's or just 1 of those 18's. Why confuse?

Page 9 - A sector is "a Collection of spaces that share the same number and color. The dreadnought fleet moves from sector to sector, affecting each space within it."

The description on page 12 about moving the Bombardment fleet also refers to Sectors, so the definition remains the same.

IE, I'm still not seeing where the confusion is - the definition of what a sector is is pretty explicit. But as stated above, everyone groks things in different ways.

I guess my main point is that I disagree with the comment of "wouldn't everyone agree", as I certainly don't agree.


What I am saying is that not everyone that sits at a table READS THE RULEBOOK. It is not apparent from looking at the card of 4 movement and knowing whether the fleet moves through 4 individual spaces or 4 sectors. If it were on the card that it moves 4 sectors or the base of the mini model itself, it would be apparent to the people learning the game.

No, not everyone needs to sit at the table and read the rulebook. But when playing a new game, at least ONE person sitting at the table should have read the rules and understand them. If nobody in the group bothered to do that, then the group is to blame if they don't know what's going on, especially when the point in question is spelled out very clearly in the rules. Once the rule is known, it is very easily explained, and the fleet nicely covers either one OR two spaces in a region, so it's easy to see at a glance which spaces are affected by it.

If the rules were vague on the matter, that would be one thing, but the rules are pretty clear. The cards are components to the game, sure, but it's not really realistic to expect that someone could pick up and play a game without reading the rules and rely solely on the cards.

Quote:
If the sectors were numbered and the influence drop spots were lettered, you take away any confusion because when you add 4 to the movement, there is no question of sectors or spaces... because they are clearly delineated.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but even if you gave letters to the influence spots, it wouldn't change anything about how the fleet moves. Some sectors have 1 space, some have 2. And when the fleet moves onto/through the sectors with two spaces, it affects both spaces simultaneously. How else would you accomplish that, other than having the two spaces within a sector share a common number?

What purpose would giving the influence spaces letters have? The cards that provide influence tell you which sector they are in, and the name of the space. Giving a letter to the sector wouldn't serve any purpose that the name doesn't already provide. Lettering those spaces wouldn't have any impact on the fleet, since the fleet would still affect both spaces in the sector either way.

Quote:
And, if your response is, "I didn't have a problem understanding it" and you don't add anything productive to the conversation, please do not post.

My response was to your original question: "Can we all agree?" My answer is "no, we can't all agree", because I simply don't agree with your assessment that the board is confusing, at least not in the way you are describing here. The reason I did respond was also similar to some of the other respondents, and it's still not clear to me what alternate solution you would provide that would still accomplish the same functionality (IE, where the fleet moves over GROUPS of spaces, rather than individual spaces).


Perhaps you could explain how you were trying to move the fleet? Were you trying to move it space-by-space, and were confused when there were two of a certain number (which one does it go to, this one or that one?) Or was the source of confusion something else entirely?
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:



Quote:
If the sectors were numbered and the influence drop spots were lettered, you take away any confusion because when you add 4 to the movement, there is no question of sectors or spaces... because they are clearly delineated.



The reason I did respond was also similar to some of the other respondents, and it's still not clear to me what alternate solution you would provide that would still accomplish the same functionality (IE, where the fleet moves over GROUPS of spaces, rather than individual spaces).


Alternate solution provided. You quoted it. Please read. Stop being a fan boy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.