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The Resistance» Forums » Rules

Subject: Secret communication - use of language rss

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Wim D
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Can 2 players in this game communicate in a language the other players do not speak/understand. I know there is no rule about this, but is there a mode of etiquette about this?

In PBF games, there is the rule:
There is absolutely no communication between players about the game outside of this forum.
Is it allowed to write something on the forum in a language other than English/in a language you know not everyone understands?
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Drew Spencer
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I think that would be fine. I would almost certainly take that as strong evidence that they were both spies, though, so it should probably be done with great caution. Our games have had the same policy regarding whispering: do it at your own risk.

I've never done PBF and can't speak to the etiquette there.
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Paul S
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I'd say no: you're breaking the game if you do the different language thing.

Just my opinion. But there's no provision in the rules for "confidential" information exchange - and that's exactly what you'd be doing, I suggest, with different languages.

So: no. Not good.
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Clyde W
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I'd say yes, it's totally legal and perhaps even encouraged. And IF you were a Resistance player doing that, I'd immediately call you a spy. Actually, if you were a spy doing that and I was your fellow spy, I'd call you a spy. Anything to seem more trustworthy is a good play in this game, I think. Speaking in another language doesn't make you seem trustworthy, which is why, if we were playing together, I'd encourage you to try it.
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Sean McCarthy
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clydeiii wrote:
I'd say yes, it's totally legal and perhaps even encouraged. And IF you were a Resistance player doing that, I'd immediately call you a spy. Actually, if you were a spy doing that and I was your fellow spy, I'd call you a spy. Anything to seem more trustworthy is a good play in this game, I think.


Seems like a bad idea to me. You've gotta be really careful with hidden role games and allowing secret communication. Before you know it someone is proved to be not a spy (this can obviously happen) and suddenly they are doing everything, they're whispering with everyone individually because it's technically the optimal play for the good guys. Maybe that's OK with you, but I know I would prefer to play with no secret communication allowed, and for sure it's a different game.
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Tim
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I'd also agree. Perfectly legal, but I'd never send you on a mission and I'd condemn anyone else who tried to send you.

Generally speaking in this type of game you don't want to ally yourself too closely with any one person at the table. They could be setting you up to take the fall for them... Guilty by association.
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Chad Miller
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FWIW, in poker, it's explicitly disallowed. I'd be inclined not to allow it here for all the same reasons, but as others have said simply refusing to ever send them on missions can also do the trick.
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Christopher M
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Do you talk in other languages around friends who can't understand you? I was always thought that this behaviour is rude and think the same principle applies here.

You should however be asking the people you are going to play with what they think about it
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The Compulsive Completist
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I would say it is okay and it will fail epically and weed itself out on its own.
 
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Agent J
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I wouldn't play with that person again.
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David H
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Can people use secret hand gestures in your game? Does it actually work in your group? Something doesn't add up.

Imagine that players A and B have developed a super secret yet perfect way to communicate privately with each other, but others are aware of their communication.

Case 1: Both on the same team

The players have an advantage

Case 2: One a spy, one not

Major advantage to resistance... since they know the identity of at least one spy

Unless...

Case 2b: One spy, one resistance, spy pretends to be resistance

Well, now we are back to the original game. The secret communicating people are communicating secretly, but they don't know if the other guy is lying or not. Case 1 is not so helpful any longer because it looks exactly like case 2b.
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Sean McCarthy
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I see so many replies about how you can just allow it because the players themselves will make it unpalatable (e.g. by assuming people passing private messages are spies). This plan works because the non-spies are the majority team.

But abuse of private communication by the majority team cannot be similarly discouraged. So three possibilities:
1) The only possible use of this is by the minority team. But since everyone knows this, it never happens, because it would just expose the spies. You might as well have disallowed it.
2) On balance the ability to communicate privately in at least some situations benefits the majority team. In this case secret communication will run rampant and can ruin the fun of the game while making the majority team more likely to win. The game would be better off if you had disallowed it.
3) It's somehow ambiguous which team is benefiting from the private communication. (This would almost certainly be due to a deficit of critical thinking because it's usually pretty easy to determine who is benefiting.) In this case arguing over it becomes part of the game which is kind of fun.

Since my group would be playing it pretty logically, 3) isn't going to happen and most likely 2) will. Hence I'd want to disallow it. I can see some groups being fine with it at least for a while but IMO this is better treated as a variant because it has very real problems, player-dependent though they are.
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Clyde W
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First of all, the majority team has no clue who the other majority players are. Second, if two confirmed majority players are whispering secrets into each others ears, well, I don't see anything in the rules that state that's not allowed. I think that's perfectly allowed in the rules, and perhaps even encouraged, in order to work out voting strategy. Just as secret communication at the table between spies is allowed (and encouraged in my group, assuming you can pull it off) in order to coordinate fail cards.
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Chad Miller
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1awesomeguy wrote:
Do you talk in other languages around friends who can't understand you? I was always thought that this behaviour is rude and think the same principle applies here.


Actually, this doesn't bother me even slightly. And I have been in social circles where this was commonplace. I just don't like it in a communication-centric game.
 
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Greg Wilson
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This is for the group to rule. I wouldn't allow it, personally. I think all in-game communication should be public. Related questions:

Would you allow players to whisper or pass notes in a tabletop game that only one person can receive?

Would you allow players to post encrypted messages in a forum game that only one person can decrypt?
 
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Drew Spencer
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SevenSpirits wrote:
But abuse of private communication by the majority team cannot be similarly discouraged. So three possibilities:
1) The only possible use of this is by the minority team. But since everyone knows this, it never happens, because it would just expose the spies. You might as well have disallowed it.
2) On balance the ability to communicate privately in at least some situations benefits the majority team. In this case secret communication will run rampant and can ruin the fun of the game while making the majority team more likely to win. The game would be better off if you had disallowed it.
3) It's somehow ambiguous which team is benefiting from the private communication. (This would almost certainly be due to a deficit of critical thinking because it's usually pretty easy to determine who is benefiting.) In this case arguing over it becomes part of the game which is kind of fun.

Since my group would be playing it pretty logically, 3) isn't going to happen and most likely 2) will.


Can you give an example of when secret communication would benefit the majority team? It seems to me that it wouldn't, because the majority team members don't know who each other are. You may get one person who everyone is pretty sure is resistance, but what would they have to gain from whispering to people or being whispered to?
 
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Philip Migas
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I think using another language is fair.

BlackSheep wrote:
This is for the group to rule. I wouldn't allow it, personally. I think all in-game communication should be public. Related questions:

Would you allow players to whisper or pass notes in a tabletop game that only one person can receive?


I have had players texting each other during a game. It was allowed. Of course I was shouting about how it was unfair. Unfortunately they were texting each other that I was a spy (which was true). Whispering has happened at just about every game I have played (not always by me). When you have 10 people at a table there is going to be side (whispered) conversations.


BlackSheep wrote:
Would you allow players to post encrypted messages in a forum game that only one person can decrypt?


People send cryptic messages all the time. It could be through body language. It could be through talk that has a double meaning.
 
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Agent J
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I guess I have to go learn the word 'fail' or 'red' in every language now... and 'pass' and 'blue'... azul! Thanks Dora.

No. I'm playing a game, and my game is in English. You will speak English at the table. You will not speak sign language. You will not communicate secretly. You will not give hand signals during the spy reveal phase. These are things you just don't do. Making games less fun has never been high on my priority list.
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Greg Wilson
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pmigas wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
Would you allow players to post encrypted messages in a forum game that only one person can decrypt?


People send cryptic messages all the time. It could be through body language. It could be through talk that has a double meaning.


Encrypted, not cryptic. I'm talking about posting something like:

rbJgTx0dHR36PDHR0izghGqaAZQxj1zvRX+T5xCPh25Rooo1tK666MFl/0mx+ZMo5uF+2K9nNdm11JL7OnxvaFCCS5ykHZr16e2ENEHAHaI5qK+8IxH/JgtRqjQfcYLfYi9XGtirOLshmWX9TfmxiSIftgIq

If you know the encryption key (it's 'Resistance', by the way) then you can decrypt that to get the message. Otherwise, it's gibberish.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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I have a hard time learning the Gibberish language, as it always seems to change at random. Those Gibberians are surely brilliant.
 
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Chad Miller
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I wonder if people on the 'pro' side have ever seen spies accidentally double red-card a mission they don't have to. Or if they even realize that spies not wanting to be on teams together is one of the primary motivators that separates spy play from resistance play and allowing private communication of any kind obviates it.

Also, something another post reminded me of: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Newbie_Game (see rule 13)
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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It's more fun to go on a mission with a fellow spy and have it fail with 1 fail card... I can't even rely on that base motivation anymore. If I'm playing with Clydeiii, and I think Clydeiii's a spy, I actually look for him to do that.
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Drew Spencer
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Jythier wrote:
I guess I have to go learn the word 'fail' or 'red' in every language now... and 'pass' and 'blue'... azul! Thanks Dora.


Go for it, but you'll find it has the same effect as the words "I am a spy" followed by simply saying the same 'fail' or 'red' or 'pass' or 'blue' in English.
 
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Drew Spencer
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SlebRittie wrote:
I wonder if people on the 'pro' side have ever seen spies accidentally double red-card a mission they don't have to. Or if they even realize that spies not wanting to be on teams together is one of the primary motivators that separates spy play from resistance play and allowing private communication of any kind obviates it.


How does it obviate it? After we've selected our team, we watch them like hawks to make sure they don't engage in private communication. If we catch someone saying something that could potentially have a double meaning or engaging in any sort of suspicious body language, they immediately become suspect. If, after choosing our team, someone suddenly said something in a foreign language, they may as well have said, "I am a spy." A lot of the fun comes from spies trying to think of some way to communicate secretly without getting caught.
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Travis Worthington
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I'd be in the camp of letting side bar conversations happen, as others have pointed out it should only raise suspicions between those not included in the conversations or should be pointed out as such by spies that aren't part of the secret conversation.

For me part of the fun is trying to get away with things like this, so as long as participants are ok with the social aspect of not understanding all the conversations then I don't see a problem. Plus I suspect that many people that are frequently in a multi-lingual environment understand more than they let on. Certainly I know that I can pick up the gist of most conversations even in languages that I can't speak, but then again I was raised in such environments unlike most americans.
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