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Subject: Unlimited Buildings? rss

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Mark Leaman
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I think you'll find that it will slow down the game quite a bit. Especially since the building card track can clog up with undesirables from time to time (even with bribes on them).

I'll agree that having building card slots on the player card is kind of pointless. I would have rather seen the espionage, uranium and plutonium tracks moved onto the player card along with bomber and fighter tracks in lieu of card slots.
 
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Brandon Tibbetts
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Some gamers are extremely organized and derive joy from lining up their components into neat grids.

Many gamers are not this way.

I think that most players will find that if the player boards are not used, that later in the game at least some player spaces will become a big mess. If this is the case, it can impede everyone's ability to play effectively. The building spaces on the player boards are intended to improve the experience of the game by keeping information organized accessible, and close to the main board where everyone can see it.

To address your other question, limiting each player to 10 buildings is not quite as simple as it may appear. It would introduce a number of new rules (which are needless the way the game is). Is a player allowed to pave over a building even when he has fewer than 10? Is a player allowed to pave over a building that has workers on it? If so, what happens to the workers? Where do the paved over buildings go? Can they eventually re-enter the game? Is a player allowed to pave over a building that isn't damaged? What if players build through all of the building deck and all of the enrichment plants are gone? Also keep in mind that there will be incentives to pave over buildings besides maxing at 10. If workers return to your supply, you might want to do it just to get the workers back without a retrieval round. Maybe you'll want to do it so another player cannot use espionage on that building. By all means, introduce house rules and give it a try. Just bear in mind that it will require more rules and have several side effects.
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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Quote:
Page 8 of the rules states: You are not limited by the spaces on your Player Board. Simply place any additional Buildings next to your Player Board.


So far, with 1 exception, every player every game.

Quote:
Why not limit a player to 10 Buildings at a time?


That would require rules for destroying a building. Otherwise you'd be stuck with the first 10 you bought. You buy some buildings to move the track and make others cheaper.

Forcing you to keep buildings with a limit would make airstrikes way too powerful.

Allowing people to dump buildings complicates:
Espionage
Where workers on that building go when you destroy it.
General building availability allowing new players to screw themselves even more in the beginning of the game.


In short, limiting buildings per player, would require at least two more pages of rules. It would also make more degenerate cases of play so that it drags into 3 or 4 hours. Os so my opinion goes.
 
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Eric Jome
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TheWanderingMiller wrote:
I think that limiting players to 10 Buildings would add extra elements of strategy to the game.


You haven't even played it one time and already you're trying to modify the rules? Why did you even buy it? Why not just make your own game from scratch?

Try learning the game first. When you've played 100 times, then you'll know it well enough to make changes.
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Tim Seitz
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cosine wrote:
TheWanderingMiller wrote:
I think that limiting players to 10 Buildings would add extra elements of strategy to the game.


You haven't even played it one time and already you're trying to modify the rules? Why did you even buy it? Why not just make your own game from scratch?

Try learning the game first. When you've played 100 times, then you'll know it well enough to make changes.

What's with this game and people making changes it to it before even playing? First there was the guy with the VP track... Now this?

Here's why it's a bad idea, IMO. Having a lot of buildings is a viable defense against an espionage or air strike strategy. If you cap buildings at 10, then it's probably not. You end up reducing strategy, not increasing it.
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Ken Dilloo
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Sam Carroll
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I mentioned this issue here:

Item for Geeklist "The most annoying things people do during a game."
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Tim Seitz
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spartax wrote:

Well, I'm not sure that's exactly equivalent, since they are doing it during the game, they have at least some sense of what they are talking about. But it's bad enough, all the same.

I guess we need an additional entry to that geeklist...
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Adam M
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"Having a lot of buildings is a viable defense against an espionage"

Actually I think the opposite is true. From what I saw today, espionage is more favoured by players who choose not to buy that many of their own buildings and just 'mooch' of the good buildings others buy. If you have 12 buildings and they have 3 or 4 on the espionage track, then they still get what they want (they have more to choose from), but don't really hinder you too significantly.

The only defense I've seen against espionage (which was kind of by accident) was where I had several buildings that required either an engineer or scientist, and the spy only had general workers to place. That saved me a couple times.
 
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Tim Seitz
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bluepisces wrote:
out4blood wrote:
Having a lot of buildings is a viable defense against an espionage"

Actually I think the opposite is true ... but don't really hinder you too significantly.

See? I think you're actually agreeing with my original comment.

If you have crappy buildings, it's going to take them several espionage attempts to raise their level up to where it's even useful to attack you with it. Meanwhile, they spent a lot of money in the process. Espionage takes a board action and all it does it let you place some workers, it actually doesn't net as a positive. It's main game effect acts to prevent the victim from using their buildings. But if one player goes to espionage, and another goes to a reactor, or mine, or factory - to do something useful with their board action - the espionage player is probably going to lose.

If you're playing with more players, who probably have nicer buildings, then you're likely to never be a target at all.
 
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Matt Rutherford
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out4blood wrote:
cosine wrote:
TheWanderingMiller wrote:
I think that limiting players to 10 Buildings would add extra elements of strategy to the game.


You haven't even played it one time and already you're trying to modify the rules? Why did you even buy it? Why not just make your own game from scratch?

Try learning the game first. When you've played 100 times, then you'll know it well enough to make changes.

What's with this game and people making changes it to it before even playing? First there was the guy with the VP track... Now this?

Here's why it's a bad idea, IMO. Having a lot of buildings is a viable defense against an espionage or air strike strategy. If you cap buildings at 10, then it's probably not. You end up reducing strategy, not increasing it.


ahem...

think i'm "the guy" who mentioned a VP track.

I don't see how that's changing the game any more than using a calculator to add up the points. .
 
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Tim Seitz
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It's not about changing the game. It's about doing it before you've even played the game. Like, you wanna make a VP track to make the math easier, but after you've played it just once, I'll wager you'll see that there's not really any math and say, "What was I thinking?"

But go right ahead. Whatever helps you enjoy the game! laugh
 
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You can't handle the truth?
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Now, I haven't played this game yet, I have only looked at the box cover, but I think this game needs some rule changes. Like first, I think it would play a lot better if there were a dexterity element, like Crokinole. During espionage, you need to flick your workers over to your rivals' buildings.

Yes. This is a change we need to make...

This was the right thread for this post, right? yuk
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Brandon Tibbetts
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crambaza wrote:
I think it would play a lot better if there were a dexterity element, like Crokinole.

Manhattan Project: The Catapult
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Tim Seitz
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Quote:
This was the right thread for this post, right?

No, you have to make your own thread!
 
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Tim Seitz
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schmanthony wrote:
crambaza wrote:
I think it would play a lot better if there were a dexterity element, like Crokinole.

Manhattan Project: The Catapult ICBM

Brandon, you need a better developer!
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John Sizemore
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As long as we're fixing stuff:

1. Allowing players to bomb buildings by flinging "bombples" at opponents' building cards seems pretty obvious. This would balance the airstrike mechanic, and it would be thematic, as well.

2. And why the hell can't I just nuke another player, anyway? Players are always disappointed by this. I should be able to wipe out (let's say) half of an opponent's buildings, and test a loaded bomb, with one step!

3. I should be able to turn my spies into saboteurs, just like in Master of Orion. Espionage is clearly a weak mechanic in the RAW, since I can't even steal bomb plans (duh!), so this ought to beef it up.

4. Getting more than 8 plutonium/enriched uranium, or 10 fighters/bombers, should reset that track to ZERO just like in Vanuatu. Because you can have too much of a good thing.

5. What does the Pope have to say about all this bomb-building? The lack of a Papal Interdict mechanic to reign in the runaway leader is troubling.

Hopefully, Brandon, you'll test your next game before you go releasing it.
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Joe Mucchiello
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out4blood wrote:
schmanthony wrote:
crambaza wrote:
I think it would play a lot better if there were a dexterity element, like Crokinole.

Manhattan Project: The Catapult ICBM

Brandon, you need a better developer!

Consider the danger of using a catapult to send a nuke at your opponents. I believe there was a joke lurking there.
 
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