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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Are responses mandatory? rss

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Christian Nierensieb
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Is the response on the Chaos Beastman player mandatory or can I chose not to take a cheating token?
 
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Peter Schott
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as cheating is mandatory, we play that a beastman must take a cheating token after a successfull tackle attempt (note that successfull also includes the "nothing happens" result)
 
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brian
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nierensieb wrote:
Is the response on the Chaos Beastman player mandatory or can I chose not to take a cheating token?

Cheating is mandatory. You have no choice.
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Emile de Maat
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pethulhu wrote:
(note that successfull also includes the "nothing happens" result)

As far as I know, "nothing happens" does not count as a successfull tackle. The rules describe it as:
Blood Bowl: Team Manager Rulebook wrote:
Target Missed: The tackle fails, but there is no other effect.

"Tackle fails" does not sound like a successfull tackle.
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brian
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A tackle is a tackle. A Target missed is not a tackle.
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Peter Schott
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the german rules (p. 11) are very explicit on this topic:
"Regarding skills, a tackle is ONLY regarded not successfull if it ends with an attacker down result" (I was also intrigued by this sentence.)

the English rules have a somewhat, but only somewhat similar sentence on p.11 after the tackling paragraph:
"Note: Some abilities take effect when players are “successfully tackled.”
If a manager applies the tackler down result, it does not count as a
successful tackle for the target player."

This reads a bit different.
What is intended?

(After reconsidering, I think the German translation is very wrong on this topic)
 
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brian
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pethulhu wrote:
the german rules (p. 11) are very explicit on this topic:
"Regarding skills, a tackle is ONLY regarded not successfull if it ends with an attacker down result" (I was also intrigued by this sentence.)

the English rules have a somewhat, but only somewhat similar sentence on p.11 after the tackling paragraph:
"Note: Some abilities take effect when players are “successfully tackled.”
If a manager applies the tackler down result, it does not count as a
successful tackle for the target player."

This reads a bit different.
What is intended?

(After reconsidering, I think the German translation is very wrong on this topic)

Target missed is not successful by any definition. The german translation is wrong.
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Peter Schott
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I wonder how it could be so garbled.
Thanks for making this clear.
 
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Seba J
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yeah, it's time for a german faq.
 
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Matteo Salomone
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I'm not sure that the response on the Chaos Beastman is mandatory...

The rules says:
Quote:
Cheating is mandatory; all other skills are optional

but it refers to the Cheating SKILL.
The response on the Chaos Beastman is not a skill, but a card ABILITY.
I can't find in the rules if response abilities are mandatory and I think it should be clarified in FAQ.

However, looking at Orion's Cleats (a Wood Elves Team Upgrade):

I suppose that responses can be triggered by player at will when conditions are met (as you do in other FFG games such as A Game of Thrones LCG and A Lord of the Rings LCG) because if responses are mandatory, than I should exhaust Orion's Cleats during the FIRST tackle attempt (against me) of the turn shake

If I'm right, then if your Beastman succesfully tackle an opposing player you CAN:
- choose NOT to trigger the response
- choose to trigger the response that add the cheating skill to the Beastman. If you do so, then you MUST assign the cheating token
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Frank Böttcher
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ColtsFan 76 knows this game very well, but I assume he is not right here.

There are responses on player cards that use the word "may" in the text. If responses on player cards are really optional this makes no sense.

Official FAQ please.
 
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Danny O'Donnell
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GuardianOfTheFlame wrote:
I'm not sure that the response on the Chaos Beastman is mandatory...

The rules says:
Quote:
Cheating is mandatory; all other skills are optional

but it refers to the Cheating SKILL.
The response on the Chaos Beastman is not a skill, but a card ABILITY.
I can't find in the rules if response abilities are mandatory and I think it should be clarified in FAQ.

However, looking at Orion's Cleats (a Wood Elves Team Upgrade):

I suppose that responses can be triggered by player at will when conditions are met (as you do in other FFG games such as A Game of Thrones LCG and A Lord of the Rings LCG) because if responses are mandatory, than I should exhaust Orion's Cleats during the FIRST tackle attempt (against me) of the turn shake


Not only that, but if you had the all team upgrades pictured, you would have to use Conditioning Coach to potentially increase your player's star power, use Orion's Cleats to make the opponent roll one die, even if it's to your detriment, and then use Dodge Type Thing to make them reroll that die, regardless of the result. And you would have to do all that on the first tackle attempt against one of your players every turn.

So responses can't be mandatory. None of those cards says you 'may' do anything anywhere on them, but they can't possibly be required. On the other hand, thematically, it seems like the cheating responses should be. The Death Roller has the same response, and it seems like the intention must have been for the Death Roller to get a cheating token every time it tackles someone.
 
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brian
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Alright, let's back this up. The thread got a bit convoluted because I misread the original question thinking it was asking about the cheating icon, not the response.

So to start over, Cheating is a Skill. It is the only Skill that is Mandatory. The other Skills are Sprinting, Passing, and Tackling. These are all optional.

The non-flavor text on cards are Abilities. The rule book states: "Response abilities are resolved during the Matchup phase when the conditions are fulfilled."

So as soon as the condition is fulfilled, the response triggers whether you want it to or not.

So going back to the original Chaos Beastman question: His choice is if he tackles. Tackling is an option. If he does not tackle, then the effect does not happen. If he attempts to tackle and is successful, his response triggers gaining him a Cheating token. In other words, the only way he can get a player down is by cheating (and cheating twice as much as everyone else since his first skill is Cheating too).

Now, some responses ARE optional based on the wording of the card. First, if it says "may" then you can ignore the response. The response still triggers but part of the resolution is giving you the option.

The 2nd set of "optional" responses are the ones that require you to Exhaust them. These are one-time use during the round so the manager has the choice when to activate them. So with the Athelorn Avengers cards shown, the only one that is mandatory is the End Zone Celebration, but that takes place during the Scoreboard phase. All the other are "exhaust" cards and optional to play.
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Frank Böttcher
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

PS: ColtsFan 76, any news from the expansion ?
 
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brian
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Baerenkeks wrote:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

PS: ColtsFan 76, any news from the expansion ?

I couldn't tell you if I knew.
 
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Seba J
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maybe you could, but then you'd have to kill us ninja.
 
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Danny O'Donnell
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That makes sense. Essentially, you can consider exhausting a card to be part of the conditions that trigger the Response, rather than an effect of it.
 
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Frank Böttcher
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Baerenkeks wrote:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

PS: ColtsFan 76, any news from the expansion ?

I couldn't tell you if I knew.


sigh ...
 
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