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Subject: Which solution to the 3rd person tie-breaker? rss

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Don Eskridge
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I'm working on an abstract strategy game (partially inspired by GIPF) for 2-4 players. With 3-4 though, there's a very rare situation which technically could occur, in which one player could create a tied situation for two other players. I am considering these rules to deal with that situation:

1. In 3-4 player games, a player may not make a move whose result would immediately win the game for another player. This goes above and beyond the problem, and partially eliminates the king-maker problem. However, it could also be the most stressful.

2. In 3-4 player games, a player may not make a move whose result would create a tied situation for two other players. This most clearly eliminates the problem. However it is also so specific and will so rarely occur that I hate to use the extra words.

3. In 3-4 player games, if one player makes a move that ties the game for two other players, the tied players win together. This is the easiest and kindest, but allows for the situation of a tied game, which abstracts generally avoid (granted, it could never happen with 2 players).

Thoughts? I'll include a poll, but please also voice off below.

Poll: 3rd person tie-breaker
Which solution to the 3rd person tie-breaker?
A player may never end a turn that immediately lets another player win.
A player may never end a turn that would create a tie for two others.
If a player creates a tie for two others, the two win together.
      14 answers
Poll created by Don E
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J C Lawrence
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Disallow moves which end the game without the active player winning.
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Drew Dallas
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None of the above, sometimes someone is a kingmaker, the ohter players should have played better so as not to put their fate in someone elses hands.
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Steven Metzger
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clearclaw wrote:
Disallow moves which end the game without the active player winning.
Agree with this.
N-in-a-rows, connectors, and chess have this - just scratching the surface on abstracts that force you to win on your own turn.
 
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Sturv Tafvherd
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Darksbane wrote:
None of the above, sometimes someone is a kingmaker, the ohter players should have played better so as not to put their fate in someone elses hands.


I'd agree with this.

And I would add: why do we have to break a tie?
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Daniel King
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Or just get crazy and declare the player who created the tie a winner. Sort of like shooting the moon in hearts. If it's as rare as you say, then it might be an interesting touch.
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Steven Metzger
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Don, I think you might need to share the idea...

...or else you're a spy.
 
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Don Eskridge
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metzgerism wrote:
Don, I think you might need to share the idea...

...or else you're a spy.


Hahah, you're right Steven, thanks for that ninja I'd actually be happy to share more of the game, just like to finish up the basic rules doc and make some picture examples first.

But in general: there are 16 colored sets (red, green, blue, yellow) of rings and markers on a 61 space hexagonal board (a la GIPF plus the outer edge), pieces owned by all players. Player are trying to move the rings and swap the markers in order to match the unique goal tiles each players owns. As soon as one person moves n swaps enough to have 3 matching sets (ring+marker) of his color goal tile (for example, red marker in blue ring), he may flip it over. First person to flip all his goal tiles wins the game.

Thus back to the issue at hand, it's technically possible that a player could swap two markers to create a winning situation for two other players, because at the end of each person's turn, any player may flip a tile if the matching sets exist.

Just trying to find the best solution for that.
 
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Philip Migas
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I personally don't like special rules that disallow a standard move of the game. You are either allowed to do something or not during the whole game. Any time something standard changes, it should be added to instead of taken away.
 
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Filip W.
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reluctantpirate wrote:
Or just get crazy and declare the player who created the tie a winner. Sort of like shooting the moon in hearts. If it's as rare as you say, then it might be an interesting touch.


I like this idea (if it's workable). It would mean that if you're behind you could still strive for a situation where you'd gain a victory by tie. It would mean acting kingmaker for the weaker part and might create interesting balancing situations for the lagging player.
 
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B C Z
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Don E wrote:
Thus back to the issue at hand, it's technically possible that a player could swap two markers to create a winning situation for two other players, because at the end of each person's turn, any player may flip a tile if the matching sets exist.

Just trying to find the best solution for that.


Remove the bolded stuff, problem solved.

You can only flip over on your turn. Otherwise you are asking people to not make a move that they do not know wins someone else the game.

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Don Eskridge
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reluctantpirate wrote:
Or just get crazy and declare the player who created the tie a winner. Sort of like shooting the moon in hearts. If it's as rare as you say, then it might be an interesting touch.


Daniel and Filip, I also considered that idea and I agree it'd be really unique. At the same time, I think I'd feel jipped if I were playing a 3 player game, neck and neck with 1 other player with just one tile left, then suddenly a 3rd player found a coincidental arrangement of pieces and put them together for the win.

It'd be okay if the two leaders could somehow prepare and plan for that possibility, but I don't really think they can. Thanks for the thought though.
 
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Steven Metzger
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byronczimmer wrote:
Don E wrote:
Thus back to the issue at hand, it's technically possible that a player could swap two markers to create a winning situation for two other players, because at the end of each person's turn, any player may flip a tile if the matching sets exist.

Just trying to find the best solution for that.


Remove the bolded stuff, problem solved.

You can only flip over on your turn. Otherwise you are asking people to not make a move that they do not know wins someone else the game.

Still has the kingmaker issue, imo.
 
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Charles Ward
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Sorry to hijack. I thought this might appeal here, too.

Poll
Based on the games you play, on average, which of the following tie breakers do you like. Multiple choice ok. Please add other suggestions in the comments. Thanks.
1 You all lose
2 Those in a tie win
3 The winner is decided by turn order
4 The winner is decided by other accolades
5 The game continues until someone wins
6 Play another game
7 Something funny (like email the designer)
      104 answers
Poll created by ex1st
 
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