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Wiz-War (eighth edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Heave-ho and Wall of Earth. rss

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Dom Rougier
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Last night a player tried to use Heave-ho to throw his treasure onto another on his home square and win the game.

Now, he can't do this, since Heave-ho needs to target an empty square, and there was already a treasure there, however this got me thinking:

Could you target an empty square behind your home square, and then counterspell yourself with Wall of Earth (between the home square and the target square) to bounce the treasure back onto the home square, and win the game?
 
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Ecosmith Ecosmith
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Can't you only cast counters in your opponents turns?

I think your idea is great though. /



Eco
 
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David Kenley
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Is it an empty square? I thought it was also wizards, creatures and objects. I'm sure I was planning to chuck a chest at a thornbush to destroy it last game I played. I know treasure chests are some kind of weird pseudo object though...
 
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Dom Rougier
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Bear85 wrote:
Is it an empty square? I thought it was also wizards, creatures and objects. I'm sure I was planning to chuck a chest at a thornbush to destroy it last game I played. I know treasure chests are some kind of weird pseudo object though...


I don't think you can target treasure chests, since I don't think they're technically objects in this sense. I could be wrong, and Heave-ho could just allow you to long-bomb the treasure home for the win.
 
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Jorge B
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Ecosmith wrote:
Can't you only cast counters in your opponents turns?

I think your idea is great though. /



Eco

Well, according to the rules, counters "may" be played during opponent turns (not "must"). I'm not sure that rules out playing during your turn if the conditions are met.
Edit: In fact, Antianti would be almost useless if it could only be played out of turn. I'm guessing the op's play is perfectly legal
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JT Call
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Domfluff wrote:
Could you target an empty square behind your home square, and then counterspell yourself with Wall of Earth (between the home square and the target square) to bounce the treasure back onto the home square, and win the game?


Sounds legal to me. Not to mention dead brilliant.
 
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Martin Gallo
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talusproteus wrote:
Domfluff wrote:
Could you target an empty square behind your home square, and then counterspell yourself with Wall of Earth (between the home square and the target square) to bounce the treasure back onto the home square, and win the game?


Sounds legal to me. Not to mention dead brilliant.
Except for that illegal part (counterspell is cast on other player's turns as a reaction to prevent an attack spell targeting your wizard from taking effect on your wizard).
 
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Jorge B
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martimer wrote:
talusproteus wrote:
Domfluff wrote:
Could you target an empty square behind your home square, and then counterspell yourself with Wall of Earth (between the home square and the target square) to bounce the treasure back onto the home square, and win the game?


Sounds legal to me. Not to mention dead brilliant.
Except for that illegal part (counterspell is cast on other player's turns as a reaction to prevent an attack spell targeting your wizard from taking effect on your wizard).

Nah, seems absolutely legal. Nothing in rules says counters *must* be played out of turn. The rules just say they *may* be played in opponents turn (see Antianti for example, that is almost certainly intended to be played in your turn).
 
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Nikolay Kamishev
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tiborvadovan wrote:
martimer wrote:
talusproteus wrote:
Domfluff wrote:
Could you target an empty square behind your home square, and then counterspell yourself with Wall of Earth (between the home square and the target square) to bounce the treasure back onto the home square, and win the game?


Sounds legal to me. Not to mention dead brilliant.
Except for that illegal part (counterspell is cast on other player's turns as a reaction to prevent an attack spell targeting your wizard from taking effect on your wizard).

Nah, seems absolutely legal. Nothing in rules says counters *must* be played out of turn. The rules just say they *may* be played in opponents turn (see Antianti for example, that is almost certainly intended to be played in your turn).


Yes Jorge B you are wright about the timing of the counter spells, but for me the second part of the sentence (counterspell is cast on other player's turns as a reaction to prevent an attack spell targeting your wizard from taking effect on your wizard)is what prevent this combo.
 
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Aaron Bredon
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kamishev wrote:
tiborvadovan wrote:
martimer wrote:
talusproteus wrote:
Domfluff wrote:
Could you target an empty square behind your home square, and then counterspell yourself with Wall of Earth (between the home square and the target square) to bounce the treasure back onto the home square, and win the game?


Sounds legal to me. Not to mention dead brilliant.
Except for that illegal part (counterspell is cast on other player's turns as a reaction to prevent an attack spell targeting your wizard from taking effect on your wizard).

Nah, seems absolutely legal. Nothing in rules says counters *must* be played out of turn. The rules just say they *may* be played in opponents turn (see Antianti for example, that is almost certainly intended to be played in your turn).


Yes Jorge B you are wright about the timing of the counter spells, but for me the second part of the sentence (counterspell is cast on other player's turns as a reaction to prevent an attack spell targeting your wizard from taking effect on your wizard)is what prevent this combo.


Where is this sentence in the rules? The rules say:
"Counter spells are the only spells that may be played during
another player’s turn. Counter spells are cast as a response,
and the counter spell’s card indicates what action or spell to
which the card must be played in response."

They may (but do not have to} be played during another player's turn.
They must be played as a response to something, but what they are played as a response to varies, and is specified on the card.
 
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Martin Gallo
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Perhaps I have more experience with the original (first seven) edition.
 
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Jorge B
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martimer wrote:
Perhaps I have more experience with the original (first seven) edition.


Maybe that changed (i'm not familiar with earlier rules). From the 8th edition rulebook, and the 8th edition FAQ, quoted below, it doesn't seem to be necessary that the attack targets you.

"
Q. When can “Wall of Earth” be played and how long does
it last?
A. It is played in response to an attack or an attack spell,
and it lasts for the length of that one attack (such as the
entire duration of a “Lightning Bolt” spell). It can block
the movement of a “Lightning Bolt,” movement caused by
“Waterbolt,” and (when played in response to an attack)
movement as a result of “Featherweight
"
 
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oldschoolgamr
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Isn't Heave Ho a Mundane action... You cast it on "yourself" to be able to chuck the treasure at someone or something. I remember reading that Mundane actions cannot be countered - but could be wrong...?
 
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Dom Rougier
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Card text:

Heave Ho
Mundane, Attack.

Throw a treasure you are carrying at a target object, wizard, creature or empty square.

The treasure deals physical damage equal to the number of squares it was thrown. If thrown diagonally, distance is measured as a wizard would move.

Mundane actions can't be countered.


I believe that last line should be worded as "Heave-ho can't be cancelled", and this may be the issue.

Heave Ho couldn't be countered with something like a Full Shield, and I'd be tempted to read that you therefore couldn't counter it - however, you can use a Wall of Earth to counter a punch, by blocking line of sight. Punches are also mundane, but the punch isn't canceled, so much as evaded. Likewise you could use Shield to reduce the damage.

If someone else cast Heave-ho at you, I believe the intention would be to be able to Shield yourself from the damage, evade it by turning Invisible, or block it with a Wall of Earth, you just couldn't cancel the spell itself, since Heave-ho is mundane and not strictly a spell (it's something the Wizard is physically doing, like picking a lock).

The other question is whether you can cast a counterspell like this on your turn. Treasures do not count as Objects, and definitely make the space they're in non-empty.
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JT Call
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Where's Tom Jolly when you need him?
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Vigerus Vigerus
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talusproteus wrote:
Where's Tom Jolly when you need him?


He was Heave Ho'ed with a treasure and he haven't countered it
 
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