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Subject: Can you help me understand the hype? rss

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Todd
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I like worker placement games, but why all the attention for this game? The components look OK. Adventurers = cubes is meh.

Is the excitement due to the theme? I have never played the game so I just want to understand.

There have been a lot of worker placement games coming out that seem cool....The Manhattan Project, Zong Shi, Kingdom of Solomon, Giza: The Great Pyramid, Belfort...

What makes this game stand out? Why are you excited about Lords of the Waterdeep?
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Brian Brokaw
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The Quest card drafting mechanics, plus the direct player interaction of the Intrigue cards is what pushed this over the top (of Caylus) in my list of favorite games.
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steven riola

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As someone who used to play rpg's but hasn't in years (it just doesn't 'click' with our group), this brings the elements of the games I love (euro) into a setting which I love. For some it will be a draft a purple/blue cube game to achieve what they need to win.

I'm looking forward to playing it much more as a story that develops. Recruit a wizard and he is in the tavern until the rest of the 'war party' can be assembled, send party to complete a mission. All the while having a secret identity as one of the lords of water deep who must plot to keep a hold on the city. Playing intrigue cards just adds more, which unseen lord am I stopping on his path to the win? With all of the lord options, the story can develop numerous ways. How will you plan your buildings? Do you okay intrigue cards? Is your lord aggressive and always trying to take those cards? Do you destroy quest cards available? For me, I see it as a mixture of storytelling with a game mechanic I enjoy.
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Scott M.
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For me the excitement was the merging of multiple gaming genres and mechanics.

We have a stongly tested EURO mechanic board game with some type of roots from Caylus.

We have a Themed board game from one of the oldest and most recognized systems, Dungeons & Dragons.

We also have a conflict mechanic with regards to the Intrigue cards unlike other worker placement games where is player VS system, in this case its player VS system VS players (very ala DnD)

You put that in a mithril shaker and hit with a antimagic ray from a beholder eye stalk and you get a child called :Lords of Waterdeep.
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Pater Absurdus
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For me it is the following:

1. Theme: DnD + Euro = Awesome Sauce
2. Availability: Holy crap, I can actually purchase this game!
3. Price: $10 cheaper than any of the games you mentioned (at least on Amazon)
4. Rave Reviews: Not just the statements in the reviews but the way the game is described sounds fun
5. Game designer video and blog entry (don't remember where I saw these) are well done and helped get me really excited.

My copy is going to be shipped soon! cool

Edit: Estimated delivery is tomorrow!

Edit: It has arrived! ninja
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Talorien
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Quite a few Thematic (Ameritrash) gamers appreciate the gameplay of Euros but tend to find the themes snooze-worthy.

So 'Caylus in D&D' sounds totally awesome.
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Todd
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Thanks! I think I am leaning towards Manhattan Project (I like the direct player conflict), but this also caught my eye. I appreciate the feedback.
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Mathue Faulkner
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So, if I have almost zero experience with D&D, and the theme isn't any more interesting to me than most, should I look into this game? I already have several worker placement games (Agricola, Ora et Labora, Carson City, Fresco, Caylus Magna Carta, Egizia, etc.) and I only have a few plays at most of all but Agricola. Does Lords of Waterdeep offer a unique enough experience based off mechanics alone to look at?
 
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T Guiles
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Falcons wrote:
Thanks! I think I am leaning towards Manhattan Project (I like the direct player conflict), but this also caught my eye. I appreciate the feedback.

Buy both. I did.

Manhattan Project is definitely really fun. I haven't played Lords of Waterdeep yet, but I already know that I will enjoy it more than Manhattan Project. It's almost like the game was written for me: theme, setting, connection to D&D, worker placement, strategy, interesting mechanics, player interaction. I'll know more when I play it for the first time Saturday.
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Marcel Sagel
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mfaulk80 wrote:
So, if I have almost zero experience with D&D, and the theme isn't any more interesting to me than most, should I look into this game? I already have several worker placement games (Agricola, Ora et Labora, Carson City, Fresco, Caylus Magna Carta, Egizia, etc.) and I only have a few plays at most of all but Agricola. Does Lords of Waterdeep offer a unique enough experience based off mechanics alone to look at?


Based off mechanics alone... no, probably not. Not that the game mechanics are bad, far from it, but they are also not unique.
Then again, Lords of Waterdeep is lighter and shorter than most of the games you mention (maybe all, but there are some I don't know).
That, and the theme which does of course appeal to some, might make it easier for you to find opponents so it might still be worthwile to get it. But if I were in your shoes, this is a definite case of "try-before-you-buy".
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Sea
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For me it's the theme and presentation of the game itself. I don't play much euro games, but those that I do have interest in either have great theme (NOT trading in medieval age) and/or great components (Alien Frontier ,Ninjato... ). All those fit into the three Euro games I'm looking into right now : Drum Roll, Belfort and this

Also this one seems to have a higher interaction level compared to usual almost-solitare euro-style games.

As for mechanics.. I don't think it's a unique mechanic, but the ability to build buildings that will bring you more options in actions to take (and maybe reap a few rewards from people using them) IMO makes it a lil more "non-samey" compared to games like stone age. Then again I don't look into the Euro genre much so what do I know?

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Todd
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Eidolon wrote:
Falcons wrote:
Thanks! I think I am leaning towards Manhattan Project (I like the direct player conflict), but this also caught my eye. I appreciate the feedback.

Buy both. I did.

Manhattan Project is definitely really fun. I haven't played Lords of Waterdeep yet, but I already know that I will enjoy it more than Manhattan Project. It's almost like the game was written for me: theme, setting, connection to D&D, worker placement, strategy, interesting mechanics, player interaction. I'll know more when I play it for the first time Saturday.


That is interesting to me. The theme for Waterdeep seems pasted and purely a marketing ploy. Get D&D players excited and buy our game. Cubes that are usually wood and iron are now clerics and wizards.

I guess I don't see it as unique in gameplay. Seems like it would be fun, just don't know if I need to own it.

Manhattan Project seems unique in how it presents Worker Placement.
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steven riola

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Falcons wrote:
Eidolon wrote:
Falcons wrote:
Thanks! I think I am leaning towards Manhattan Project (I like the direct player conflict), but this also caught my eye. I appreciate the feedback.

Buy both. I did.

Manhattan Project is definitely really fun. I haven't played Lords of Waterdeep yet, but I already know that I will enjoy it more than Manhattan Project. It's almost like the game was written for me: theme, setting, connection to D&D, worker placement, strategy, interesting mechanics, player interaction. I'll know more when I play it for the first time Saturday.


That is interesting to me. The theme for Waterdeep seems pasted and purely a marketing ploy. Get D&D players excited and buy our game. Cubes that are usually wood and iron are now clerics and wizards.

I guess I don't see it as unique in gameplay. Seems like it would be fun, just don't know if I need to own it.

Manhattan Project seems unique in how it presents Worker Placement.


Having played both Manhattan Project and now Lords of Waterdeep, I can say that to be neither game feels likes it's 'pasted on'.

Manhattan Project has the mechanic to leave your pieces out and continue to block other actions until you need to retreive your workers. It creates consistant player interaction (or aggrivation) depending on how you look at it. So you'll get some initial player interaction by being aware and knowing when to take valuable spaces on the board to help prevent others from getting those advantages as well as boosting your own supplies (whether workers, yellow cake, blocking an air strike, etc). Not to mention the air strike tracks and the spy ability.

Where you'd assume LoWD is pasted on, the Intigue cards help create quite a bit of player interaction, as as well as the different lords that you're controlling. Not knowing what lords the other players have, you have to build a strategy to continually get the quest cards you need to help achieve end game victory points, and as many lords have an overlapping quest goal, you have to watch which cards others are taking, and try to deduct what their goal is. If you both have a need for Warfare and Skullduggery cards, do you take the one from the board that's face up or do you wipe the entire board hoping that with the next draw that your opponent doesn't get a card they need to hit the board.

Last night, one of our players didn't need Piety quest cards for end scoring bonuses, but upon second play he was able to build a strategy that once these quests were completed they provided him with bonuses that gave him additional warriors as he used them. It wound up winning him the game by nearly 30 points. It's a strategy game as in most euros, that has a healthy dose of player interaction and 'screwage' involved. Playing last night, watching my opponents fill their taverns with adventurers and then hitting them with a 'mandatory quest' card when they finally got that cleric they needed was awesome. It puts them back a turn and then makes them fight to get the cleric again.

Maybe it's just me, but I definately don't feel the theme was just pasted on to sucker D&D fans out of their money.

If I had the option of Manhattan Project or LoWD for game night, at this point I'd almost always take LoWD. (and I do have that option as I own them both)



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Talorien
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Falcons wrote:
That is interesting to me. The theme for Waterdeep seems pasted and purely a marketing ploy. Get D&D players excited and buy our game. Cubes that are usually wood and iron are now clerics and wizards.


The designer started from wanting an action drafting (worker placement) game.

He took the Dark Sun D&D universe and made the resources adventurers, adding cards, quests and buildings. Players were given the role of a sorcerer-king.

Then he worked out the math costings behind the VPs.

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120307

The design was later adapted to the Forgotten Realms D&D universe instead.

I don't think you can accuse theme of being pasted-on given that design process.

And certain mechanics (quests, intrigue) seem chosen to fit theme, rather than vice versa.
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Todd
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I am not trying to attack anyone. LoWD is probably a great game. I just get the same reaction to it that I get when I go shopping with my girls. They see a snack with a Disney princess on it and they "have to get it.". Another snack might taste better, but to them it is all about the picture on the box.
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Jack Francisco
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Todd - I'm actually the opposite when it comes to WotC products. I see their stamp and the bile starts to rise. gulp
 
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I can think of 6 good reasons...

1- WotC made a Euro game!
2- It has outstanding player reviews!
3- So far all the board games they have made are excellent!
4- Classic old school D&D artwork!
5- Theme!!!!!!!!! (Your a lord of Waterdeep!)
6- Easy to learn, interactive game mechanics!

Then again, this is my opinion.
My copy arrives on monday, and I cant wait!
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Dave
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Falcons wrote:
I am not trying to attack anyone. LoWD is probably great game. I just get the same reaction to it that I get when I go shopping with my girls. They see a snack with a Disney princess on it and they "have to get it.". Another snack might taste better, but to them it is all about the picture on the box.


You're not trying to attack anyone, but this comes off as more than a little condescending, FYI. Same conversation, kinda, happened a few weeks back about Eclipse. It's so suddenly popular, something's clearly wrong with people for liking it! Give some credit to your fellow BGG'ers for cyring out loud! Because if your initial reaction to something like this is "OMG they can't see past the hype", and even equating our mental ability to that of your children selecting lunch meat or whatever... Urgh. shake

Trying to not get sucked by the hype is one thing - good on you (no sarcasm). But systematically running in the opposite direction is not necessarily the answer.
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Todd
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ScoobyG wrote:
Falcons wrote:
I am not trying to attack anyone. LoWD is probably great game. I just get the same reaction to it that I get when I go shopping with my girls. They see a snack with a Disney princess on it and they "have to get it.". Another snack might taste better, but to them it is all about the picture on the box.


You're not trying to attack anyone, but this comes off as more than a little condescending, FYI. Same conversation, kinda, happened a few weeks back about Eclipse. It's so suddenly popular, something's clearly wrong with people for liking it! Give some credit to your fellow BGG'ers for cyring out loud! Because if your initial reaction to something like this is "OMG they can't see past the hype", and even equating our mental ability to that of your children selecting lunch meat or whatever... Urgh. shake

Trying to not get sucked by the hype is one thing - good on you (no sarcasm). But systematically running in the opposite direction is not necessarily the answer.



True. The tone in my response was not great. Sorry.

I should try the game, maybe someone in my group will get it.
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Jack Francisco
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ScoobyG wrote:
But systematically running in the opposite direction is not necessarily the answer.


It is when WotC produces something.
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steven riola

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I almost felt the same way. I bought ravenloft and frankly I hate it. It's only been played twice. So I was skeptical, I picked this up and have had a blast with it.
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Dave
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senorcoo wrote:
ScoobyG wrote:
But systematically running in the opposite direction is not necessarily the answer.


It is when WotC produces something.


So what are you doing here? Serious question. What are you doing, posting here?
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Pater Absurdus
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thearkhammonk wrote:
I almost felt the same way. I bought Ravenloft and frankly I hate it. It's only been played twice. So I was skeptical, I picked this up and have had a blast with it.


My problems with Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game have to do with their making a co-op game out of what should have felt like a dungeon crawl and bad art. I am not worried about either of those things for this title. It's a Euro and appears to have fine art/components.

I feel your pain though. Ravenloft has it's fans and I am glad that they dig it but it is definetaly not for me.
 
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Todd
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ScoobyG wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
ScoobyG wrote:
But systematically running in the opposite direction is not necessarily the answer.


It is when WotC produces something.


So what are you doing here? Serious question. What are you doing, posting here?


It would be great if everyone stayed civil. I started this thread to ask about the hype surrounding the game. I do not want to create a BGG shouting match. I just wanted opinions about the game as I was trying to decide if I was going to purchase it. As of now I have decided to get Manhattan project.

Thanks a lot for all of the feedback.
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Dan Patriss
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I will admit a bunch about the game and how I looked at it.

Is it ground breaking? Nope it's really just WP with a hidden end game scoring and cube pushing.

Is it EASY to teach? Very much so. I taught 2 groups (one of which contained my 50yo+ mother) and they both got it with very little Q's and loved it after one round.

Is the theme pasted on? Prolly, but I hate when people even care about that (IMHO).

BUT.. bottom line is this... It's a D&D cube pushing Worker placement game and I love the crap out of it. I had a blast and my group loved it. So I will spread the word that it's a good game and I will play it and since I am happy about my purchase isn't that all that really matters?

(Another thing that matters is they already said the curse word [to some] expansion so I am excited about that too!)
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