Recommend
15 
 Thumb up
 Hide
58 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Chit Chat

Subject: The New Orleans Saints got hammered for bounties rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From Sports Illustrated:

The NFL handed down sweeping and unprecedented punishment Wednesday for bounties paid out on big hits, suspending New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton without pay for next season and indefinitely banning the team's former defensive coordinator, Gregg Williams, who now works for the St. Louis Rams.

Payton is the first head coach suspended by the league for any reason. He is accused of trying to cover up a system of extra cash payouts that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell called "particularly unusual and egregious" and "totally unacceptable."
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Edwards
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
YA R'LYAH
badge
Phnglui mglw nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah nagl fhtagn! With cheeze!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I dunno about the "particularly unusual" part, but otherwise this sounds like a good move.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They also got fined $500,000 and lost two second round draft picks. Players were suspended also.

I don't what Payton makes - a couple million?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Debije
Netherlands
Eindhoven
The Netherlands
flag msg tools
Ban him for good, I would say.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mb
Orangemoose wrote:

I don't what Payton makes - a couple million?


I read that he's out 8 million because of the suspension.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Octavian wrote:
Orangemoose wrote:

I don't what Payton makes - a couple million?


I read that he's out 8 million because of the suspension.



I hope he socked some away. That's a big fine that sends a great message. Goodell's getting tougher.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike K
United States
Fairless Hills
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mi_de wrote:
Ban him for good, I would say.


Understandable sentiment, but probably won't happen to Sean Payton.

Now Gregg Williams is another matter: suspended indefinitely.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Hopcroft
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
The Taints should have had their Super Bowl title vacated.


I don't agree. Pro leagues are smart enough to realize that once games are played, they're played. Having one of every three BCS champions have to vacate their titles is ridiculous (and symbolic of how endemic the corruption is in college football). Taking away their rings would not only be a futile effort to rewrite history but it would penalize unfairly the fans of New Orleans, who have already suffered longer and harder than many other fans in sports.

Their punishment is the sorts of questions that are being asked right now, and will continue to be asked, about what would have happened had there been no bounty program. In my opinion they would have still won. The bounty program was unnecessary and stupid.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James To My Friends
Netherlands
Eindhoven
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Can we pay Roger Goodell money to inflict a bigger ban on Payton?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
voynitsky wrote:
Can we pay Roger Goodell money to inflict a bigger ban on Payton?


Will he take bag ?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Key Locks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
voynitsky wrote:
Can we pay Roger Goodell money to inflict a bigger ban on Payton?

That's pretty meta. Kudos.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance
United States
Moorhead
Minnesota
flag msg tools
The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father
badge
The Dread Pirate Caleb!! (age 2)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Michael Hopcroft wrote:
Taking away their rings would not only be a futile effort to rewrite history but it would penalize unfairly the fans of New Orleans, who have already suffered longer and harder than many other fans in sports.


Why is it impossible to look at the situation objectively and not try to weigh in on a completely impossible method of trying to weigh one fan's suffering over another?

Taking away the championship (while this will never, ever, ever happen - more on this in a moment) will do more to stop people from cheating in the NFL than a handful of fines and suspensions. Many of the players that were involved in this situation are now on different teams - they will likely suffer some sort of suspension...is that fair to those teams and those teams fans? Do you think this is fair to the Rams who now have to find another coach? The bottom line is that Payton may be out 8 million bucks, but he has a job for life in New Orleans, and if you think for one moment that the owner isn't going to just set him up with some other sort of employment on the side to compensate him while he relaxes this season you are fooling yourself. $500,000 is chump change to these people - the only thing...the ONLY thing that is actually harmful to them, that may have long standing affects is the loss of two draft picks, but those are 2nd rounders, and the Saints are going to continue playing at a high level, so the impact of the players taken at those positions will most likely be marginal.

Now then - as much as I wish they just vacated the title for that season, taken back the trophy, torn down the championship flag, and demanded the rings be turn in, it would never happen because above all else, the NFL is a huge business, and it is interested in making money. The moment you put a black mark on the BIGGEST sporting event ever, you endanger your brand. Back during Spygate, they destroyed all of the video tapes after reviewing them (and telling us all that there was no evidence of any cheating on them) to prevent any sort of unfair advantage to the Patriots opponents in the next season. The NFL made this statement (somehow) with a straight face. It is commonly believed that the Patriots most likely cheated during the playoffs AND the Super Bowl using their video cameras, and there was evidence of this, but the league would be devastated if news of this was ever made public, so under the rug it goes.

So the Saints get to keep their trophy, they get hit with a penalty that they will ultimately bounce back from rather quickly (reflecting now, what sort of restrictions will be placed on Payton? What prevents the Saints from sending him videotapes of practices and having him teleconference with the other coaches and giving his insight?) and the league gets to pat itself on the back and move forward like nothing happened. As my buddy Craig said when he heard this "None of this matters. No one cares about Spygate anymore, and in a year or so no one will even talk about this. Controversies come and go, but flags fly forever."
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Holt
England
Rayleigh
Essex
flag msg tools
This is not the cat you're looking for - some other cat maybe?
badge
tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Let me see if I understand this correctly

1) In the game of American Football, although it is within the rules of the game to "block" and "tackle" agressively with the purpose of gaining or denying yardage, it is contrary to the rules to do so with the intent of injuring another player.

2) It is established that (some of) the New Orleans players have been breaking this rule (and the bones of some opponents?).

3) Furthermore it is established that this has been done at the instigation of (some of?) the coaching team and that bonuses have been paid for this.

4) That the NFL have reacted strongly and issued exemplary punishment.

but note that

5) The legal term "Volenti non fit injuria" and its consequences do not apply if the rules of the activity were deliberately broken.
(I should, perhaps, have used the term "assumption of risk" which is the corresponding doctrine in American law - but doesn't sound so grand)

So

6) There is the possibility of lawsuits for (almost) unlimited damages in this situation.

7) Perhaps even more to the point, these would have been illegal assaults and within the terms of the criminal law.

indeed

8) For "away" games the NOS would have crossed a state boundary to commit these illegal assaults; and the actions of the coaching staff could reasonably be described as "inciting" illegal assaults and "conspiracy to commit …". If the owners were aware of these actions (seems probable), they would also be conspirators.

So

When are the FBI and US Marshalls arresting all likely suspects for questioning on these very serious alleged offences?


(If I have misunderstood any points of federal law here I'm sure someone will clarify)
In corresponding circumstances in Rugby (both codes) and Association Football the mere threat of police action has gone a long way towards preventing such behaviour in this country.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
If it falls on me and pins me underneath it, does that still count as seizing the day?
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been hearing rumors about various teams putting bounties for hard hits on individual players on other teams, and just for hard hits in general, for over thirty years. I suspect it's been going on much longer than that, the only difference here is that the Saints got caught. Hopefully this will put a damper on such actions for a few years, but I suspect it will still go on, just that teams will be much more circumspect about it.

(Yes, I'm cynical about cheating in sports.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
Bounties have been around for years throughout the NFL.

The Saints just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Here. Check the date.
http://www.aolnews.com/2008/12/22/jim-mcmahon-in-the-nfl-the...

It's not something we like to acknowledge but football is American blood sport. We like to think everyone is just playing their best and kudos to the team that wins the well executed strategies of their coaches and quarterbacks.

If that's what got people excited about sports, soccer would be much more popular in the US than football.

While touchdowns are exciting, it's seeing a player get knocked unconscious that makes the headlines the next day.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Riedy
United States
Glen Ridge
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From what I've heard it's pretty clear that the reason for such stiff penalties is that the Payton, etc. were warned about it for years, tried to hide the fact that they were doing nothing about it, and lied repeatedly when questioned about it during the recent, and previous investigations.

A LOT of teams have/have had bounty incentives. Why the NFL came down so hard on the Saints isn't because they wanted to send a message about bounties (they did) but because they wanted franchises to know who is in charge and that they can't get away with whatever they want. This was to make sure the franchises knew that the NFL had bite to go along with their bark.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samuel Sol
Brazil
São Paulo
SP
flag msg tools
admin
All engines full to awesome land!
badge
*tap* *tap* Is this thing on?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
The Taints should have had their Super Bowl title vacated.



Did they have all of the Cheatriots titles after "Spygate"? No. So no, the saints also shouldn't. And again we can see how pathetic was Billy Cheat punishment.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Hancock
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spygate was despicable too. Difference was it didn't put anyone in additional unnecessary physical danger.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samuel Sol
Brazil
São Paulo
SP
flag msg tools
admin
All engines full to awesome land!
badge
*tap* *tap* Is this thing on?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hancock.tom wrote:
Spygate was despicable too. Difference was it didn't put anyone in additional unnecessary physical danger.


No, but it tainted the game completely. It created a "dynasty" that now we don't know how good it really is, never won anything since, and opened the gates for similar behavior. It would be similar to have to pay 300k if you are caught taping your adversary in a Poker tournament, but winning it would net you 2mi. IT is worth it.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
As a Vikings fan, I'd gladly trade two second round picks, a year of a head coach, a defensive coordinator, and a million in fines for a Super Bowl championship.
\

Wait, you live in the land of the Packers and you're a Vikings fan.

Oh, the horror.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Orangemoose wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
As a Vikings fan, I'd gladly trade two second round picks, a year of a head coach, a defensive coordinator, and a million in fines for a Super Bowl championship.
\

Wait, you live in the land of the Packers and you're a Vikings fan.

Oh, the horror.


You should see my cheesehead. It's painted purple, has horns stuck through it, and has a bumper sticker that says "Packers Suck" on the back. It's only been lit on fire once on my five trips to Lambeau with it.


So many things have been made clear for me by that description.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Orangemoose wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
As a Vikings fan, I'd gladly trade two second round picks, a year of a head coach, a defensive coordinator, and a million in fines for a Super Bowl championship.
\

Wait, you live in the land of the Packers and you're a Vikings fan.

Oh, the horror.


You should see my cheesehead. It's painted purple, has horns stuck through it, and has a bumper sticker that says "Packers Suck" on the back. It's only been lit on fire once on my five trips to Lambeau with it.


I've only been privileged to go to Lambeau once. The most popular guy there wore a hat that read "Dallas sucks." I got my picture taken with him.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Key Locks
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Orangemoose wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
As a Vikings fan, I'd gladly trade two second round picks, a year of a head coach, a defensive coordinator, and a million in fines for a Super Bowl championship.
\

Wait, you live in the land of the Packers and you're a Vikings fan.

Oh, the horror.


You should see my cheesehead. It's painted purple, has horns stuck through it, and has a bumper sticker that says "Packers Suck" on the back. It's only been lit on fire once on my five trips to Lambeau with it.

This made me smile. Thank you.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Leezer wrote:
This made me smile. Thank you.


Looks like I have to make a new obnoxious hat for the team I now despise more than the Packers.



The #1 rule of NFL fanaticism is that YOUR team actually has to be relevant in order to despise another team.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ogsponge wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Leezer wrote:
This made me smile. Thank you.


Looks like I have to make a new obnoxious hat for the team I now despise more than the Packers.



The #1 rule of NFL fanaticism is that YOUR team actually has to be relevant in order to despise another team.


Ouch
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.