Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Fields of Fire» Forums » General

Subject: Please check my comments! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I made some comments in sections 9.4 and 9.7 on the Fields of Fire Boot Camp site that I would like verified. Please review the column titled 'This rule Covers' and let me know if you would confirm what I wrote or have alternate or better interpretations of the rules. I've covered a number of topics on the website so far and am very comfortable with what has been documented so far, but this Enemy Leader section had some gaps or disconnected areas that I tried to clear up in the comments so I'd like them to be verified.

Thanks!

https://sites.google.com/site/fieldsoffirebootcamp/rules-ref...

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your 9.4 comments wrote:
When another enemy unit has line of sight to the enemy leader that unit gets one extra draw when attempting actions such as seeking cover, grenade attacks, etc (See 9.7 below).

I would only consider Visual-Verbal communication (4.3.1), not line-of-sight. Note that a pinned leader does not have visual-verbal communication (tho I would still use the "Leader on card" column for LATs and pinned units).

Quote:
If the enemy Leader is on a card with other enemy units it performs no combat actions other than it's leadership effects in the hierarchy table and the extra draw for action attempts by it's units.

Your 9.7 comments wrote:
When the enemy unit the enemy leader was generated with moves from one card to another move the enemy leader with that unit.

Those might be too much interpretation, IMO - more like a house rule. I think you should always check for leader actions independently. Or perhaps I've missed discussion on this elsewhere?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zhredder wrote:
Your 9.4 comments wrote:
When another enemy unit has line of sight to the enemy leader that unit gets one extra draw when attempting actions such as seeking cover, grenade attacks, etc (See 9.7 below).

I would only consider Visual-Verbal communication (4.3.1), not line-of-sight. Note that a pinned leader does not have visual-verbal communication (tho I would still use the "Leader on card" column for LATs and pinned units).



Great input. I have added it to the page.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zhredder wrote:
Your 9.4 comments wrote:
If the enemy Leader is on a card with other enemy units it performs no combat actions other than it's leadership effects in the hierarchy table and the extra draw for action attempts by it's units.

Your 9.7 comments wrote:
When the enemy unit the enemy leader was generated with moves from one card to another move the enemy leader with that unit.

Those might be too much interpretation, IMO - more like a house rule. I think you should always check for leader actions independently. Or perhaps I've missed discussion on this elsewhere?


I agree and have removed both of these sentences. However it does make sense to me that when the unit moves (as a general rule) the leader would move with them. In other words becoming separated from the leader would be the exception not the rule. But since that is my house rule and not in the official rules it is best removed. Thanks for keeping me honest here.

As far as checking for leader actions independently then - do you have your enemy leaders engage in grenade attacks? I just looked at my counters again last night and none of them have a VOF rating unless turned to their Fire Team side. This leads me to think that grenade attacks would be out of place as well until they are converted to a fire team? Especially since they are opening themselves up to your free grenade attempt back at them. Concentrate fire certainly won't work for a leader. In any case, I think this is an area in the rules that could use some clarification - but I'll keep my house rules off the web site anyway.

How do the rest of you play it?


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Any Concerns with the comment below as it is a bit of conjecture as well? Since a fire team is a LAT, do you feel that if it is on a card with another enemy unit it can rally back to it's front side to become a leader again? By the way, if it is alone on a card, I do not make this roll as it would flip back to it's fire team side anyway.


'The Enemy Leader can attempt to rally in order to flip back to it's leader side when joined by another unit on the same card again (see LAT and Pinned table)'
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with your interpretation, and I think it's supported by the rules. If the lone enemy leader is on it's fire team side, it could conceivably rally back to it's leader side, but 9.7 would immediately flip it back to the fire team side. So in this case a Rally result would be equivalent No Action. If there's another enemy unit on the card (i.e. another unit friendly to the enemy leader ), 9.7 would no longer apply, so the leader rally would stick. (note: if the fire team/leader is pinned, the rally attempt would be to remove the pin, so it would still apply.)

Quote:
'The Enemy Leader can attempt to rally in order to flip back to it's leader side when joined by another unit on the same card again (see LAT and Pinned table)'

IMO, this shouldn't be an automatic rally attempt; it should be called for by the Activity Check table. Therefore, circumstances would need to be such that you fall through to the "Leader on Fire Team side" case.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CaanDo wrote:
As far as checking for leader actions independently then - do you have your enemy leaders engage in grenade attacks? I just looked at my counters again last night and none of them have a VOF rating unless turned to their Fire Team side. This leads me to think that grenade attacks would be out of place as well until they are converted to a fire team?

Only units with a printed VOF may make grenade attacks (6.5). Concentrate fire would similarly be not applicable to leaders. Per 9.4, fifth paragraph: "If a result is drawn on the Enemy Activity Hierarchy tables that an enemy unit cannot legally perform, and there are no alternatives listed for that result, ... then that enemy unit does nothing."

In the Normandy campaign, enemy leaders often come with rifle grenades (see enemy Ammo table in the mission briefing). In this case, a one-time grenade attack is certainly possible.

Quote:
In any case, I think this is an area in the rules that could use some clarification

I can understand your point that more sophisticated rules for leader actions might be nice. With leaders always making independent Activity Checks, you can get some results that might seem peculiar - especially if you think of the enemy units as specific game pieces of an AI-controlled opponent.

However, based on various posts by the games designer, I don't think this is the way to look at it. The focus of the game is your infantry company. Enemy units that appear are obstacles to be overcome to achieve your objectives. The units you encounter might move, shoot back (harder), or fall back and vanish; but their battle plan and tactics are opaque. Sort of like AH's Patton's Best, in a way. If weird situations arise, chalk it up to battlefield chaos or a fleeting opportunity.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zhredder wrote:
I agree with your interpretation, and I think it's supported by the rules. If the lone enemy leader is on it's fire team side, it could conceivably rally back to it's leader side, but 9.7 would immediately flip it back to the fire team side. So in this case a Rally result would be equivalent No Action. If there's another enemy unit on the card (i.e. another unit friendly to the enemy leader ), 9.7 would no longer apply, so the leader rally would stick. (note: if the fire team/leader is pinned, the rally attempt would be to remove the pin, so it would still apply.)

Quote:
'The Enemy Leader can attempt to rally in order to flip back to it's leader side when joined by another unit on the same card again (see LAT and Pinned table)'

IMO, this shouldn't be an automatic rally attempt; it should be called for by the Activity Check table. Therefore, circumstances would need to be such that you fall through to the "Leader on Fire Team side" case.


Thanks and that was what I was thinking too. The rally attempt occurs when it is 'rolled' on the LAT and Pinned table.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zhredder wrote:
CaanDo wrote:
As far as checking for leader actions independently then - do you have your enemy leaders engage in grenade attacks? I just looked at my counters again last night and none of them have a VOF rating unless turned to their Fire Team side. This leads me to think that grenade attacks would be out of place as well until they are converted to a fire team?

Only units with a printed VOF may make grenade attacks (6.5). Concentrate fire would similarly be not applicable to leaders. Per 9.4, fifth paragraph: "If a result is drawn on the Enemy Activity Hierarchy tables that an enemy unit cannot legally perform, and there are no alternatives listed for that result, ... then that enemy unit does nothing."

In the Normandy campaign, enemy leaders often come with rifle grenades (see enemy Ammo table in the mission briefing). In this case, a one-time grenade attack is certainly possible.

Quote:
In any case, I think this is an area in the rules that could use some clarification

I can understand your point that more sophisticated rules for leader actions might be nice. With leaders always making independent Activity Checks, you can get some results that might seem peculiar - especially if you think of the enemy units as specific game pieces of an AI-controlled opponent.

However, based on various posts by the games designer, I don't think this is the way to look at it. The focus of the game is your infantry company. Enemy units that appear are obstacles to be overcome to achieve your objectives. The units you encounter might move, shoot back (harder), or fall back and vanish; but their battle plan and tactics are opaque. Sort of like AH's Patton's Best, in a way. If weird situations arise, chalk it up to battlefield chaos or a fleeting opportunity.


Good points and input. Thanks Mark! I think the Boot Camp page is correct now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.