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Subject: Kicking It Forward rss

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Bob Flaherty
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Brian Fargo at InXile entertainment has created a new concept for Kickstarter users called "Kicking It Forward." He loves the Kickstarter concept and InXile's new venture Wasteland 2 (yes, it will be awesome) has done well on KickStarter that he wanted a way to indicate that a portion of profit (should it get to that point) from the project will be reinvested in other Kickstarter projects the publisher wishes to pursue.

Placing the Kicking It Forward logo on a project indicates the project will participate. While I believe Brian's intent was for video game projects to be the focus, I don't see why board games or other projects couldn't participate.

A great idea to help push Kickstarter into a different realm.

Check out the new site here:
http://kickingitforward.org/
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Ian Toltz
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That seems kind of disingenuous. I'm sure many people wouldn't have a problem with it, but the fact remains that the money is being pledged for that project, and the funds should be used for that project.

Now that said, some portion of the profit can absolutely be used to pay the guy's own salary, and/or go to the company to make it more financially healthy, but I just see that as standard operating procedure. He's selling a product for profit, and that's what profit is.

So if the money could have been spent on the kickstarted project, it's basically a bait-and-switch. If the project didn't need any more money (and the creator didn't want to blow it on stretch rewards), then he's just creating a fancy name for reinvesting profits which is something I suspect everyone already does. Either way, it doesn't really sit well with me.
 
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George Carlin
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You're misunderstanding what Brian is actually intending with this project.

His statement is that, after the Kickstarter game has been developed and all costs have been paid, then 5% of any profit made after that is distributed to other Kickstart projects to pay it forward. So he's not talking about taking 5% of the Kickstarter money and paying it forward. That all goes to the project people funded. Just 5% of profits made on the Kickstarert project once it's developed and actually makes a profit.
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Keith Collins
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Asmor wrote:
That seems kind of disingenuous. I'm sure many people wouldn't have a problem with it, but the fact remains that the money is being pledged for that project, and the funds should be used for that project.

Now that said, some portion of the profit can absolutely be used to pay the guy's own salary, and/or go to the company to make it more financially healthy, but I just see that as standard operating procedure. He's selling a product for profit, and that's what profit is.

So if the money could have been spent on the kickstarted project, it's basically a bait-and-switch. If the project didn't need any more money (and the creator didn't want to blow it on stretch rewards), then he's just creating a fancy name for reinvesting profits which is something I suspect everyone already does. Either way, it doesn't really sit well with me.


The Kickstarter funds are not necessarily the profit being referenced for Kick it Forward.

Remember, the plan for most games is to Kickstart to get the funding necessary to produce the game, extra Kickstarter funds will then be used for profit, manufacturing additional units, hiring extra resources etc etc. But, most people who create a game, plan to sell the product to more than just those that Kickstarted the project, resulting in profit being generated (if they have good business sense.) The KiF pledge would then say that they are going to re-invest 5% of those profits back into Kickstarter to help others.

As for being bothered if it was the Kickstarter fund being re-invested. Yes, you payed to Kickstart their project, but as I understand (and accept), nothing in the Kickstarter says that all of the money you give will be used on the project. It says that you will get X for pledging Y. As long as you get your X, they fulfilled their commitment to you and can do what they want with the remainder.
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George Carlin
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Again, you guys need to just read what Brian wrote. Or perhaps he only sent out the explanation to backers. But he was very specific that he's not talking about taking money kickstarted and reinvesting it. He's talking about taking any profits made from the final kickstarted product and reinvesting that into other kickstarter projects to pay it forward. It's an incredibly selfless and generous thing to do and I really respect someone who's not just all about making profits.
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Hugh G. Rection
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Here's the full text of the update Brian Fargo sent out:

Brian Fargo wrote:
I announced a concept two days ago that would have developers share their success with other Kickstarter funded projects to help keep the fan funded economy alive and to give back. It was met with much enthusiasm and a lot of questions.

In order to get this movement going I have set up a website that describes the plan in detail and has a badge for developers to display to show they are part of the initiative.

Below is the text from the site itself:

I have received a tremendous response to the "Kicking it Forward" concept with all of it being extremely positive. As expected, there have also been a number of questions so I would like to clarify the concept as best I can.

One thing I have discovered over the years is that if you keep an idea simple then you have a better chance of people getting behind that idea. "Kicking it Forward" is about as simple as it gets.
Any developer that puts the "Kicking it Forward" badge on their Kickstarter project page is agreeing that they will put 5% of their finished product profits back into other Kickstarter projects. To be abundantly clear, this is only money that the developer earns as profit AFTER the project ships and AFTER they have paid their expenses. This is NOT a suggestion to invest money they received from people who invested into their project via Kickstarter.

Once a project in this program has become profitable, the developer is going to spend this 5% profit, which is their own money, on whatever Kickstarter projects they want to support. They can determine unilaterally who they want to give it to and when. Neither myself nor a committee is going to tell successful developers what projects to invest in. Ultimately, this is an honor system at the end of the day. No one is going to audit their books to make sure they complied. In many ways Kickstarter is an honor system too, so this is no different. Of course some unscrupulous developer may not follow through with their promise but I believe the development community sticks together.

My involvement will be to create the badge and set up a site that displays which projects agree to "Kicking it Forward" and which projects were supported through this program. Then, after that, it needs to take on its own life. After all, I need to make sure Wasteland 2 meets everyone's expectations.

Here is the link if you want to pass it on or get the badge. http://kickingitforward.org/

I genuinely believe that a fan funded approach to development combined with a new flow of investment money can change things up quite a bit here. It will be exciting to see how it all plays out.
You can see the badge and text displayed on the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter page if you want to view it in use.

These are exciting times....

PS. I know I referred to it as "Kick it Forward" earlier but that URL was not available.

PSS. We have opened up donations for PayPal using customers in cooperation with Kickstarter. Not everyone can utilize the Amazon payment system.

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Bob Flaherty
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kickstarter.org wrote:
Any developer that puts the "Kicking it Forward" badge on their Kickstarter project page is agreeing that they will put 5% of their finished product profits back into other Kickstarter projects. To be abundantly clear, this is only money that the developer earns as profit AFTER the project ships and AFTER they have paid their expenses. This is NOT a suggestion to invest money they received from people who invested into their project via Kickstarter.


Brian is trying to find a way to acknowlegde publishers/developers that realise that without Kickstarter their dream would likely not be a reality and wants to show (everyone) that they are Paying It (the Dream to others) Forward.

I think it is a great concept as Geroge stated an awesome act of selflessness to help others use Kickstarter to achieve their goals.
 
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Bob Flaherty
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@Hugh G. Reaction
Thanks, I should have quoted the entire post intially.blush
 
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Matt Riddle
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I think we are going to do it. Profit is a pretty small number at the end of the day and I back a decent amount of projects anyway.
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Brook Gentlestream
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The idea of one business setting aside funds for philanthropically helping another business leaves me feeling conflicted. On the one hand, I can lead to some sort of elitist clubhousing effect, on the other hand, who am I to pass judgment on what a company does with their profits?

While I think there is a noble intent behind this, it would mean a lot more to me if the money was being reserved for some specific charity. This is one of the main reasons I support Indie Cards & Games so enthusiastically.
 
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